Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, this is what I've done and what I've changed:

1. Put him into a glass 10 gallon tank with a screen lid. Two hides, 1 climbing branch, one small water bowl with about 1/2" of water.

2. Tried the paper bag trick. He waited until the pinky made a wet spot, then pushed his way out. Luckily I always put my feeding containers back into their regular tanks if I am not right there to observe.

3. Tried the deli cup. Both snake and pinky were in there in the morning.

4. Brained the frozen/thawed pinky. No response.

5. Scented pinky with Lizard Maker. Got a strike, then he tried to eat it from the middle, gave up, and left it in the deli cup.

6. Teasing, no response.

7. Left pinky in his regular cage overnight right in front of his hide. Pinky still there in the morning.

8. Live pinky. His new best friend. I bought this pinky last night and left him in the feeding cage overnight.

9. My latest attempt (based on Herman's observation that mexicans are known to be bird eaters) was to go out front and get some sparrow downy feathers, put them into the feeding cage with the live pinky. Right now, the snake and the pinky and the downy feathers are all in the feeding tank.

Sigh......

The saga continues. If this doesn't work, the snake goes on a trip to someone who is experienced at forcefeeding. That will be this Saturday. But everyone cross their fingers and hope the feather thing works.
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phflame

Force feeding is actually easy.Pinky heads or mouse tails will work.While there is a debate on what to use I prefer mouse tails.Just grasp your baird behind the head and use a fingernail/mouse tail to pry open the mouth.Then just slowly insert mouse part as far as you can get it to go.With a good size mouse tail you can get it in there deep and there's less of a chance of him to spit it out.After you get your desired mouse part in there gently rub it down and hold your snake for awhile so there isnt a chance of him spitting it right back up.Ive also had success using a whole small pink and just getting it started in there mouths.Sometimes it just takes one or two feedings to get them started on there own.Sometimes it can take a couple months.It can be very frustrating.
Another option is to brumate early and hopefully this kicks in the feed mode.Good luck...Paul

Two things hit me from your post:
1. your little one hit the lizard-scented pinky, but aborted the feeding attempt (actually a GOOD sign!)
2. seems like you are stressing him out with all these feeding attempts

Here is what I would suggest to you:
1. set your snake up in a sterilite/rubbermaid opaque shoebox (properly ventilated of course with a small water container, aspen or something else he can burrow down into and at least one shelter that he can just barely squeeze into. yogurt cups cut to the right height are good for neonate rat snakes. give a constant temp of 80-82.
2. leave him COMPLETELY alone for another 7 days. don't even pop the top to peak in at him. then try again, in his new comfy enclosure, with another lizard-scented pinky. drop the pinky in on a piece of cardboard or a small, shallow dish and walk away. don't check again until the morning. I suspect that you were probably looming over him when he was trying to eat the pinky from the middle and that is what made him drop it. Hatchlings can take a few feedings to figure out the "right" way to eat, but should still have no problem getting it done backwards or even sideways.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do. Try and reserve force-feeding as a last resort though, as it will often cause even more stress.

>>Okay, this is what I've done and what I've changed:
>>
>>1. Put him into a glass 10 gallon tank with a screen lid. Two hides, 1 climbing branch, one small water bowl with about 1/2" of water.
>>
>>2. Tried the paper bag trick. He waited until the pinky made a wet spot, then pushed his way out. Luckily I always put my feeding containers back into their regular tanks if I am not right there to observe.
>>
>>3. Tried the deli cup. Both snake and pinky were in there in the morning.
>>
>>4. Brained the frozen/thawed pinky. No response.
>>
>>5. Scented pinky with Lizard Maker. Got a strike, then he tried to eat it from the middle, gave up, and left it in the deli cup.
>>
>>6. Teasing, no response.
>>
>>7. Left pinky in his regular cage overnight right in front of his hide. Pinky still there in the morning.
>>
>>8. Live pinky. His new best friend. I bought this pinky last night and left him in the feeding cage overnight.
>>
>>9. My latest attempt (based on Herman's observation that mexicans are known to be bird eaters) was to go out front and get some sparrow downy feathers, put them into the feeding cage with the live pinky. Right now, the snake and the pinky and the downy feathers are all in the feeding tank.
>>
>>Sigh......
>>
>>The saga continues. If this doesn't work, the snake goes on a trip to someone who is experienced at forcefeeding. That will be this Saturday. But everyone cross their fingers and hope the feather thing works.
>>-----
>>phflame

I had a texas baird who wouldnt eat, and he's still picky, but I agree that is a very good sign. Do exactly as Billy Boy says, and you should be alright

I tried for a month or more before I got him to finally eat, and he is now, but thats what I did. I ended up stressing him out by putting him in a bag or a box or whatever with the pinky. Just let him find it on his own. But make SURE its been a full 7 days. One mistake I made was I kept trying every 4-5 days when I would feed the rest of my snakes.

But i'll post a pic of my current setup at the end of this post, and this is what mine was in when I finally got him to eat, and what he's still in. (the picky eater has the blue lid). Make sure to give him plenty of cover and such...and i'm sure he'll do fine

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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)

Actually, most of the time I have been waiting up to a week between these attempts. The only exception is probably the live pinky and the bird feathers. Once I got him home from the show, he went right into a cage where he was not bothered for a week, then I fed him. He did eat that frozen/thawed pinky after I dragged it in front of him. That was on September 23. And the time that he dropped the pinky after striking it, I had left the room for about 1/2 hour, so he was totally alone. I actually assumed that he had eaten it and then regurged it when I found it in his deli cup, but since it was totally dry, he must have dropped it and been laying on top of it so I couldn't see it.

Unfortunately, I can't put him into the sterilite shoe box type container, as apparently there are humidity issues with these snakes. I already had him in a BARRs cage when he came home, which raised the humidity too high. However, the shelf he is on right now is in a very quiet area of my house, so he is not bothered by traffic.

The only time that I have been handling him at all is when I pick him up to change the paper towel and when I pick him up to put him into a feeding container. I don't even handle him when I put him back in his regular tank, I just take the lid off the feeding container and put the whole thing in there.

I am very concerned about waiting until he is too weak and then forcefeeding him, as that can definitely be the last stress for him.

He did not eat that feather scented pinky today.
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phflame

Mine has gone over a month and a half without eating and it didtn weaken him too much. how long has it been since you've had him?

this is what i've done and this is the only way mine will eat

Take some gecko substrate and take a LIVE pinky (will not eat a frozen/thawed one), and let your pink sit in with the gecko substrate for about 2 hours at first. then take it out with tongs and place in the cage on a piece of paper or something so he doesnt accidentally injest the shavings, and turn off the lights overnight. He probably struck at that one that was scented and relaized that it stopped wiggling and lost interest.

I'm pretty sure that will work. If not i've got a few more things that may work ...didnt for me but may for you. i'm suggesting first the one that worked for me lol.

then if this works, feed him once every 5-7 days. dont handle him at all until he gets a good 3-4 meals down.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)

What works for some people may not work for all.Im just giving suggestions based on my own experience.Like we all do here.If Im right great.If im wrong i can still learn from other people.
Patience and learning will get you a long way in this hobby/addiction.I hope I never stop learning here.It would be my demise...Paul.

>>I had several snakes, three rescues and three I hatched, that refused to eat.
I went through all of the tricks. Actually I went through all of them several times. Inbetween the attemps at getting them to feed naturally I began force feeding.
After six weeks of not eating I began force feeding.
I started with pinkie heads.
I would set them up for which ever "trick" was next.
Live scented with skink for example.
After being left over night without eating I would force feed.
The following week I would try again.
As they grew (which was much slower then naturally feeding hatchlings) I moved up to force feeding them whole pinkies.
Well, to make a long story short..They either arrived here or were born in April.
They are all eating on their own now but they didn't start eating on their own until September through October.
The first to begin eating on it's own was early Sept. and the last to begin eating on it's own was early October.
I just kept rotating through the "tricks"
scented, unscented, brained, live, f/t, and every imaginable combination of these along with using anole, skink and even tuna fish to scent.
The tuna fish finally worked for two of the rescues. One rescue died.
Two finally decided the skink scent wasn't too bad.
And the last one finally decided that a plain 'ole unscented f/t pinkie was all he needed.
So, I used force feeding to keep them alive, rotated feeding aproaches and relied on a lot of patience and a promise to my wife that I would never give up, to get them through the trouble.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

>>>>As Paul stated force feeding wasn't really that difficult.
Just hold their body in your hand, grip them on the neck, behind the head, with thumb and forfinger, while holding the item to be fed in the other hand gently pry the mouth open with your finger nail and insert prey item.
I used a small blunt wooden dowl to help force the prey item far enough into the mouth to keep the snakes from spitting them out.
After getting the item far enough into the mouth I would hold the mouth shut and gently message the throat to work the prey item down.
It just takes a little practice and a willingness to do what it takes.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Happy hour ran into happy 5 hours last night.Posted in the wrong spot.LOL.

I am currently trying to get 6"rebels" to eat..one of them will go as far as swollowing on his own but not taking on his own. The others just thrash everything back out unless I get it almost down their throats.
There are a few more tricks you can try.
The egg dip
The chicken broth dip.
the tuna " water" dip.....not oil
gourmet catfood...moist.
Good luck...but as long as they are living don't give up
Nancy
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Some of my best friends are snakes
Snakes Rule

Thanks for the suggestions. I assume that the gourmet catfood is just to dip the mouse in, right?
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phflame

I will have to agree with Gargoyle.

Forcefeeding a mouse tail is easy and will get the digestive juices flowing as well as get the taste of mouse in the snake.

Couple things I would like to suggest:

1) soak the mouse tail in water so it is slpiiery and goes down easy.
2) when you put the mouse tail into the mouth do it until the last part of the tail is showing. Don't waste time trying to get to much of the tail down the throat. You have to do this process fast and then quickly place the snake into its enloser before it realizes what happened. If you take to long the snake will stress out and may regurge the tail.

3)About 4 days after feeding the tail try a dead brained pink.

This is how I see it. You already have him wanting to eat a lizard scented pinky. Why do you want to screw that up with trying to shove a tail down his throat? I did that, and it did nothing. I would STRONGLY suggest trying the lizard scented LIVE pinky overnight...wait 7 days no touchy though...then if that doesnt work you can try the force feeding.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)

becoming weaker. He doesn't hide inside his hide boxes anymore. He lays beside the one on the warm side. He only ate for me on September 23. The breeder said that he had eaten live pinkies, but how many could he have eaten if he was born in the summer? That is another question. Anyone have any idea when the traditional hatching season is on Mexican Bairds?
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phflame

if he ate and swallowed a meal on sept 23...you're getting the outer edges. force feeding a mouse tail may work, im not saying it wont work for you...didnt do anything for me but scare the crap outta the litle guy. but what im saying is that he's acting like he wants that lizard scented pinky, so try him on a live one. a single mouse tail isnt gong to give him much (if any) nutritional value. thats also why i say try the lizard scented pinky again.
-----
-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)

The force feeding not only helps to stimulate the eating process it helps to keep the snake alive until it does decide to eat.
This can sometimes take quite a while (see my post on force feeding above)
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

I havent read all the posts, but I have heard of this working. Put a couple live anoles in a small container. Then put the snake and the pinkie in a deli cup with holes punched in it in the slightly bigger container. With the scent of the anoles and the movement he may take the pink. If not then force feeding him now before he gets any weaker might not be a bad idea.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

and from looking at the regurged pinkie today, I would say that he DID regurge the lizard scented pinky. Oh well, next trick......
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phflame

Ive heard more than one big time breeder say they brumate there nonfeeders.It's a last option for most but the success rate isnt bad.Maybe it will be enough to get him started...Good luck..Paul

>>Ive heard more than one big time breeder say they brumate there nonfeeders.It's a last option for most but the success rate isnt bad.Maybe it will be enough to get him started...Good luck..Paul

If it won't keep the food down when force feeding I think Paul is right.
Brumate it.
If it won't keep food down it will die.
It may not make it through brumation but the truth of the matter is...it may not make it anyway.
Just may be the ticket.
I think it is at least worth a try.
good luck and sorry you have had so much trouble.
Unfortunately some just aren't meant to make.
But there is still a good chance you can beat the odds on this one.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

I know a little trick that could work. First of all, give the snake some rest. Leave it alone for a week or so. After that, take a one day old chick and cut off one of the legs from the hip. Cut off the foot as well, I mean the scaled part of the leg. Be sure that the heel area is still covered by a thick layer of cartilage and that there are no broken bones sticking out. Forcefeed the snake this one leg, heel first, and again just leave it alone for a couple of days. If this doesn't work, I don't know what will. Good luck!

Greetings,

Herman Bronsgeest.