Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey everybody,
I'm pretty new to ackies, I bought this little male at the orlando fire expo as a red but I'm now starting to doubt that. I'm starting to think I got ripped off. I wanted to buy a female to go with this guy, but I want to make sure that I know what species he is so I can get the correct species female. I took a lot of pictures but I couldnt get the color to come out just right, but I did the best I could:

and here is his cage setup(6ft X 2ft)what do you think?

The common designation of red or yellow can be rather confusing since the differences aren't really so much about color. The spacious enclosure is very commendable. I would suggest a deeper substrate that will hold burrows.
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

V.a.brachyurus, from the Mt Isa area. Good luck FR

Could you post some pics of yellows and reds and explain the difference? This has become a weekly topic and it would be nice if people could see and understand the difference.
When I saw the pics, I was thinking red until the head shot, then I thought "Geeze, I dunno".

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

If possible please explain the differences with hatchlings (how to tell the two apart). I imagine seeing as markings are not as distinct in hatchlings and that babies can (and often do) have more "vibrant" coloring then adults might (Dumerils for example) how can one tell the difference between a red ackie and a reddish yellow ackie as a hatchling? I figure most people looking to breed are going to be purchasing hatchlings and it would be nice if they had a good mental image to compare against.

I was guessing red on this last one, but was not entirely certain (hence the guessing). But once Shvar pointed out the size of the circular markings and less distinction in the dark center spots, I can see the difference. One thing I have noticed, and I am probably WAY off here, is that true reds seem to have much darker hind legs? Is that just me and the pictures I have seen, or is that an actual trait compared to brown-red yellows?
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-Andrew

What exactly is the difference? I'm looking at Coggers '92 ed. of Reptiles $ Amphibians of Australia, on page 359 there's a pic labeled V. acanthurus Mt Isa, Qld. Apparently ackies from this area would be a. brachyurus. I know this has been addressed before but if anyone can shed more light on this subject, it'd be appreciated. Now I'm not even sure what kind of ackies that I kept in the past.
Thanks,
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

Shvar posted a pic of a real normal "Red" ackie, V.a.acanthurus. Check it out.

About Mt Isa, there are many forms(colors, morphs, phases) of V.a.brachyurs is that area, they can be very brown, to yellow, to orangish and reddesh and all of the together in one individual.

The original spiny-tailed monitors(they were not ackies yet)imported into this country were V.a.brachyurus, from the Cloncurry area, they were pale animals, without much color. Then Mt. Isas of various colors appeared. Then lots of ackies from all over the country appeared.

There may be over 50 actual types of ackies, of which I have photos of many types. The fifty is a guess to convey the idea there are lots of types.

The truth is, at this point, there are Real Red ackies, Real Mt. Isas, and Cloncurrys, and also crosses between them, done by those who only thought they were color patterns(did not understand, they made a cross). So, with that in mind, an individual monitor must pocess the characteristics of one type to be called that type, if doesn't meet all, then they must be considered crosses. Cheers FR

What subspecies and what area do you reckon these ones are from?
Thanks,
Neal

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pale reason hides the infinite from us

A red ackie by the less than scrupulous types so often in the US and Europe from what it seems. Thats the brown or reddish brown yellow ackie.

?

Back when I bought those two, I don't think the red or yellow thing was a big issue. Any type of spiny-tails were desirable. I think that back then I was under the impression that they were a. acanthurus.
Thanks,
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

In 1993, the date on your picture, I was here in tucson, producing literally hundreds of V.a.brachyurus(Yellow ackies) and had just started producing V.a.acanthurus(Red ackies). I believe, the term "ackies" had not been coined yet(a term I do not like, I think its disrepectful).

At that time, the confusion was people calling them, spiny-tailed monitors or ridge-tailed monitors. The term spiny-tailed was supose to be applied to V.acanthurus, as they have spinytails. The label, ridge-tail, was applied to, V.storri, as they spines form ridges. But then, that was all lost.

Unfortunately, I coined the terms, Red and yellow Spiny-tailed monitors. The reason was very simple, There were two types here being produced, The eastern yellow type, and the western red type. Now of course, those terms are outdated, as there are all sorts of colors. Its normal to fall back of Scientific names, when common names fail you. There are also many many different types of ackies that the books, even the modern ones, fail to recognize. Some even redder then the reds.

The problem is even worse then this, if you go the proper route and use science to identify them, thru a key, you will fail even worse, as the keys for monitors are very very poor. If you go by various published range maps, again, you will be very confused, the names(scientific) are again, not very consistant. So, there you go, call them what you will. But the truth is, yellows occur in the extreme eastern part of their range, and Reds occur in the extreme western part of their range, and this range is several thousand miles across. Between these two types are various other different types/morphs/species, whatever. Thanks FR

my post below
Defenition

Looks like a yellow to me.

The large spots on the body (dime sized as an adult), reddish brown coloring, different pattern on head and neck, smaller tail spines, less defined dots inside the spots (that type of yellow has dots, but less defined). I believe the western giants have the big spots. Reds are different, reds are red not reddish brown , black, yellow, or any color. I believe the head is a bit different shaped also.
Here is a red, hes dirty, should have taken the pic while he was wet I guess, makes the color stand out more. I wont post someone elses pic without permission, unless I own the animal, and I dont have any yellows...

I shelled out 200 bucks for this little guy, is that to much for this guy? should I try and talk to the seller about how to fix this? yellows were not really what I wanted.

did you see him before you bought him? if everyone said it was a red would you wanna keep it? i personally like the yellows as much if not more than the reds.

Its definitely not a red (Acanthurus). They after all sell for $90-$250 each, if your satisfied with the animal Id keep it. If you were sold a red ackie by the business or former owner in good faith they may refund you as sometimes it happens when someone is after a certain species and is sold something different, if they were just looking to make a quick buck by selling you a yellow they bought for $90 as a red they may hang up on you for asking to make good on it, or they may play stupid and act as if they were ripped off also. If its a good reputable business they will make good on it, if not flame them in the original board of inquiry to prevent others from being so trusting of them. Thats your decision, sometimes it pays to educate yourself ahead of time so you can recognize these scams and know what your looking for and know what the animal needs as well give it a proper setup before you get it, it happens in this hobby with many many species and color faizes of snakes also. Good luck.