Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just purchased a cham, overall in very good shape, except alot of his feet are raw. some toes just a little red, and one half of one foot, its *very* raw. The cage setup where i bought him looked decent, there didnt seem to be anyhting to do it, unless it was the sides of the cage. They were made of wire, about 1/4 inch spacing, which is also the same sort of wire on the cage i'm now housing him in. I can easily put mesh over it on hte inside if this is the problem, but i have no idea. Anyone know?

also, some general non-stressfull tips on how to help him heal his feet would be very apreciated.

I ouldnt get any pics of the feet, but i did take pics of the cham itself, so you can get the idea of at least its overall shape. I never understand, glades herp takes *excellent* care of all their indoor animals, but every reptile ive ever bought from one of their outdoor enclosures just never seems very healthy.

This is a very common problem in Melleri..
I would register with this site:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mellerichams/

They have some very good information about foot infections,
and other problems you will run into with imported mellers (parasites, skin necrosis etc.)
You will prob. want to treat with anti-biotics because
the infection can be systemic. I had the same problem
with my melleri, I had to treat him with injections for a month.
They can recover very well if treated early on.
The meds aren't too expensive, get him to a vet asap..
When mellers show foot sores of any kind it's reason to worry.
Make sure he's getting alot of water, and keep him on the warmer side (low to mid 80's) until the foot sores clear up (usually takes a couple months with medication.) You can also wrap your
perches with a padded material to ease the foot pain, this is also explained on the melleri site. Try to give him as much
room and privacy as you can, melleri stress VEry easily, and this will only add to his problems.
Looking at the photos, your chameleon doesn't look very good at
all. I hope he/she turns around for you. Statistically, very few people are able to bring
back sick melleri, they are so delicate and demanding when
they're in poor shape.. but I've saved a few, and know others who have, so it's definately possible.
good luck!
garrett

thats no good at all... esp since we just spent all of our "funds that dont need to go to bills" AT glades herp, mainly obtaining this little guy. If he turns out to really be sick, and after the iguana i got there, these guys will be getting such a peice of mind. I used to swear by this place, but between the cham, the iguana i bought a year ago, and the fact i think i was misinformed on what species of tarantella i bought today... roar. we drove almost 3 hours to buy from them today too.

How long ago did you buy it? A lot of shops will give you a "30 day guarentee" you could call them after you get him checked by a vet and tell them what's wrong. you may be able to get your money back... or maybe they'll give at least part of it back. Or, if htey try and get you to bring him back, stres that hey are very sensitive when sick and they are better off giving you some money back and you and your vet caring fo him than moving him around. They'll have to get him fixed up anyway before they can sell him.. You shouldn't pay as much for a sick animal esp when you are going toh ave to pay a vet to get him looked at. Good luck!!! I would definately talk to them though...
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

I didn't mean to scare you with my previous post,
but an imported mellers chameleon is one, if not 'the" most difficult chameleon to care for. Alot of experienced chameleon
keepers have problems with them, and unfortunately
they are widely sold in poor shape to unsuspecting
owners as yourself. They come in from Africa in terrible shape, some have broken bones, all are malnourished and dehydrated. Once they have been rehabilitated, they can be quite hardy, and easy to care for. They do, however, need very large housing, large prey items (roaches, silkworms) and plenty of misted water. I would definately contact the store about
the foot sores, they may give you a refund.. but I doubt it.
I spent 2-3 months rehabilitating mine, they have really cool
personalities when they are healthy and happy.
Definately worth every effort, the link I provided before
was very helpful to me.
gw

Here's a webpage put together by Kristina
from the yahoo mellers group:

http://lucasfrancisstudios.com/animal_art/chameleoninfo/index.htm

they did say they had him for 5-6 months (which is why he had so many price cuts on their price lists, got him for 85) which i've thinking about most all night... this means if he *is* ill, he cant be too ill since any reptile, and especially chameleons would have stressed itself to death by now. Of course, this also means he was "the one no one else wanted" since he is the last one they had, and you KNOW they had more. i supposed i should have walked away when the guy said it was perfectly OK to keep him in with the baby iguanas(where they had him, not where i wanted to put him)... sure, they arnt as pushy and bitey as adult/older iguanas, but i still cant see them being really compatable.

But reguardless, i sure dont have the money to deal with trips to the vet about his feet... any suggestions on what can at least be done in the meanwhile? I know they probably wont take him back or anything, and even if they did, it would costs us anotehr 50 round trip in gas, and odds are good they would do some sort of "store credit" crap. I am going to call them in about 2 hours when they're open, who knows. What i think they MIGHT do is either contact the person who used to be their store vet down here and have her care for the cham (shes also the same vet i used to bring my iguana too, shes very knowledgable and i trust her) or perhaps offer some sort of shipping trade (which i would request one of the CB chams they kept INSIDE since ive really noticed this trend of indoor-awesome outdoor-ill) the cage i have is probably more suitable for one of those too, im reading its a bit too small for hte melleri.

its odd what im reading about handling... at first, this guy really appreciated being handled, mainly from the bag and moving him around until his cage was ready for him. But after we put him in, he stresses if i even put my hand near him.

but, i do have a rather important question. When i first misted him he slipped and fell. im guessing this is because of his raw feet. What can i do so i dont make him fall, but still can mist the hell outta him? I'm going to try to get one of hte large perch logs through the door of the cage for him, that will at least make it so he cant fall as far, and im considering blocking off the bottom half of his cage for now, but that seems it would make an already too small cage, even smaller.

I'm going to try and word this as nicely as possible because I'm upset with a couple of things that you said and I want to be constructive and civilized about this.

I know what it's like to see an animal (especially a reptile!) and want it, and if the price is good it makes it that much easier to get. But I think as responsible pet owners we must take vet visits into consideration when we buy an animal. Is it right to buy something knowing that you can't afford to have it treated if something goes wrong? You said you bought a tarantula on Thursday, why not have used that money to take your cham to a vet? You also said that you drove 3 hours to get your tarantula yet aren't willing to make the drive to return the cham. I don't understand that at all.

I don't want to come across as attacking you but perhaps these are some things you should have considered before buying your cham. Believe me I know what it's like when you see the animal that you just gotta have! For that reason alone, I rarely go into pet stores and the like. I could buy tons of animals if I wanted but it's factoring in the vet costs that stop me (not to mention my house would smell like a zoo!).

Btw, your cham is probably feeling territorial when you stick your hand in his cage and that's why he's stressing. He's letting you know that it's his home and to give him some space. Most chams don't like to be held, they're just pretty to look at!

Meemee

no, the 10 dollars i spent on the tarantella would not pay for a vet visit. The drive to glades herp was part of a trip with alot of stops, and the reason im "not willing to make it again" is because at gas prices its the same as buying another cham.

this impulse buy is also not really "mine" its my fiances, im trying to fix it. I went to glades herp to get a snake and some tartantellas, and he chose to pick out a cham, with the money that probably would have paid for a checkup for the snake. Hes not one you say no too (and yes i know the relationship problems that go along with this so i will ask you to not point them out to me), so i tried to aide in the picking process, and my intial thoughts was that this guy was healthy except for some raw feet that should need mild treatment which i could get help with here.

We already had a basic cham setup, since we had intended to get one eventually, just hadnt started to look into yet since the intention was to get it in a few months minimum.

i also get the impression you think i went and bought a tarantella while my cham was suffering. This is not hte case, it was all purchased at the same time, yesterday. The cham, two tarantellas, and a cornsnake.

pointing oout my mistakes after i have already made and realized them is sort of pointless, and really, could end up shutting me up in fear of more people pointing it out, and the animals jsut being left to die, instead my trying to obtain more information to give him a shot at thriving. I notice alot of people immediatly jump to attack when someone who has done something foolish tries to fix it, instead of helping.

No, i should not have allowedthe unintended purchase, yes he should go to the vet, yes i should be *willing* to make the drive to return him, even thought the price of that is about the same as the vet visit i *also* cant afford. but i have already done it, and already spent up the spare cash i have.

but, that out of the way.

For the time being, what can i do to help make his feet healthier? i worry about disinfecting and liquid bandageing it since that would be stressfull and i dont know if hte feet are the best place for a thin plastic-like coating.

I have to let you know i have no experience with meller's, but i do have some suggestions...
It's good that you did come here. Sh*t happens... i know, beleive me.
Iwouldn't try to bandage his feet. I know iwth humans bandages should only be used to stop bleeding or to keep dirt from getting in if you are somewhere where that would happen. Wounds heal a lot better and faster when left open, but kept clean. For cleaning I would only use a mild soap and water. Keep an eye to see if they ooze or swell or look really infected. Your best bet at this point is to keep his feet from becoming infected. Once they do there isn't much you can do to fix it quickly w/o a vet's help.
For his cage I would try and limit him to only using the bottom half. I knwo, it seems mean, but if he isn't well you should limit his mobility. I would put lots of papertowel at the bottom of the cage, and one or two sticks going about 2" off the ground, and that's it. This isn't something you'd house him in normally, but for a sick cham it's what i'd do. I did this for my panther after he c-section... When his feet start to heal he'll get a little more mobile... try and keep him in this set up until they look strong enough to handle moving around more...
Make sure you keep him well hydrated and fed. You want his immune system to stay strong. Also, change the papertowel every day or two at least. You want to keep it as clean in there as possible...
If you can get ahold of the vet you can see about getting this stuff... chloramphenicol 1%. It is basically water based polysporin. Should help keep out infection... if they aren't nice about it and want you to bring him in then you can use regular polysporin BUT it is a little more tricky. I would apply it 2x a day (morning afternoon leave it clean at night) but you have to soak his feet in soapy water and rinse (mind you you may have to do this anyway depending on how bad his feet are) to get rid of the stuff from the last application.
I hope some of this helps you...
About your fiance... well, i know you said it. And that's it, you said it. Keep your head up girl.
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

For the sticks pu tthem so they go 2 FEET off the ground lol. OOPS.
-----
~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

i called the vet to see if i could set up some sort of "payment plan", they dont do that normally, but the receptionist said that when the vet is in (she does alot of house calls) that she will call me to talk about it. I also called glades herp and the guy said "hes been feeding great so he cant be really sick, i would get neosporin cream, cream not ointment".

i got hte cream and started to put it on him and it pissed him off. (hes so pretty when hes pissed too..) and he started gaping at me, and while the rim of his mouth is kinda pink, the inside is black. is it supposed to be black? or should i just be really, really worried?

and no one really has put iin any input either way, is he fine with the 1/4 inch holes wire cage, or should i coat the inside with screen?

the way the cage is made, i can easily just set a peice of plywood on a ridge going around the middle, making the top half a smaller cage with less falling distance, which i am working on doing now. (by working on it, i mean i sent the man to go buy plywood)

When you talk to the vet tel lher that he really needs to be looked at and also ask her to write out and assessment showing that this was/is al ongterm problem. The fact that he is still eating means nothing. Well, it means he isn't almost DEAD but he is not well... Call that guy back and call him on it. Tell him you will have a letter/note/or something from the vet explaining the problems and that they arose BEFORE you got him (make sure you get that i'm sure theyll say it's something you did.. he couldn't get htis bad in 48 hours. I'm not trying to freak you out, but if his mouth isn't pink inside that;s not good. I have NO experience with meller's i'd suggest getting some info about that from people on here with meller's experience (start a new post if you have to). I do know though that the type of cham i have isn't supposed othave a black mouth. The part of her tounge close to her mouth is dark, but the inside of her mouth would definately be pink. If it's REALLY dark BLACK then you are probably dealing with the start of an infection. I would suggest to work out what you can with the vet. I understand your situation.. i'm in a similar one right now. BUT, waiting will make his infection worse, and will cost more in the long run to treat. Treating it now will cost less and your cham will have a betteer chance of living. I'm not tyring to scare you!!! Try and get a pic of his mouth if you can. That may help
As for the 1/4 stuff, it is BETTER than screen On screen he can pull his toenails out. for now try and cover the bottom sides of the wire with soft cloth (kind that he can't catch tonails on like not terry etc) on the inside so he can't climb on the wires. They are normally ok but may be too hard for his sore feet.
Let me know how your talk with the vet goes!!
Good luck!!
-----
~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

The cheapest way to go would be getting some ace
bandages, and wrapping them around his perches..
I would not advise the setup mentioned in the previous post,
mellers need to have AlOt of live plants in his cage to help him
feel secure. These guys stress soooo easily, a small bare cage
would really bother him. Set up a few horizontal branches wrapped in the bandage inside the cover of some live plants, so the chameleon
can be hidden from your view. They feel more secure the higher up they are, so at least eye level (you can place the cage up on boxes, or just get rid of the cage and use a closet, or corner of a room)
You can place some padded towels on the floor
in case he falls again, they are very heavy and falls can really hurt them.
The advise about soaking and cleaning the wounds is good,
you may still need injectable anti-biotics to completely clear
the infection. I would call your local vet and explain the situation, they may sell you some meds that cost around 20-30 dollars.
Make sure he's drinking aLOT.. they usually drink for 20 minutes
in 1 sitting which is hard to supply with a spray bottle.
Try luke warm showers for about an hour at a time, put him
on a plant in the shower, you may have to angle the spray so it doesn't hit the chameleon directly. You'll have to come up with some sort of misting
device in his normal cage that can supply water for about 1/2 hour a couple times a day, they don't seem to use drippers very well.

i have a tall and a short hibiscus in his cage now.. (ground and ceiling cover) i was trying to figure out how to rig some dowels up in there for perches, but nothing really seems to work out right..

ive yet to even mention the size of the cage or anything, it sits on legs about 6-10 inches off hte ground, and it goes up to about my eye level. I'll see if i can put it on one of hte tables and have it be secure, but i can just see this psycho mutt knocking it down (free dog, anyone?) i might try an off-limits room if that dog seems like she could knock it down. the cage is about 3ft by 3ft, the guy at the shop said that was fine, but most of what i've read says is a bit smaller than minimum. its legs all sit in dishes of water to protect against ants and roaches (ugh isnt florida just *fantastic!*)

Is draping some fabric over hte sides to limit veiw of "outside objects" a good idea? i dont know if that would make it feel more trapped or make it think theres nothing that way to try to get too anyways...

i have a heat lamp (150 watt i think) about 6 inches off of the top of hte cage, and theres another heat lamp near the cage, on a diffrent cage, but casting some heat on the top of the chameleon cage.

I'll start bringing it outside on a fake plant (the real one is too heavy to lug around) and using the misting attachment on hte hose for awile, infact this will probably encourage me to get some much needed gardening done...

ok, now, i should NOT block off the bottom of its cage?

how can i treat his feet without pissing him off? he didnt act like he was GOING to bite me, but he sure opened it wide at me when i started putting cream on his front feet. I havnt gotten at his back ones yet, i figured i should let him chill awile first.

i have a tall and a short hibiscus in his cage now.. (ground and ceiling cover) i was trying to figure out how to rig some dowels up in there for perches, but nothing really seems to work out right..

-dowels wrapped with padding would work well,
try to get them arranged so they are level horizontally
and inside the plants so he can hide.

ive yet to even mention the size of the cage or anything, it sits on legs about 6-10 inches off hte ground, and it goes up to about my eye level. I'll see if i can put it on one of hte tables and have it be secure, but i can just see this psycho mutt knocking it down (free dog, anyone?) i might try an off-limits room if that dog seems like she could knock it down. the cage is about 3ft by 3ft, the guy at the shop said that was fine, but most of what i've read says is a bit smaller than minimum. its legs all sit in dishes of water to protect against ants and roaches (ugh isnt florida just *fantastic!*)

Is draping some fabric over hte sides to limit veiw of "outside objects" a good idea? i dont know if that would make it feel more trapped or make it think theres nothing that way to try to get too anyways...

--YES.. this would help alot. The less outside movement he can see the better, he will feel much more secure. The cage does
sound a little small, but he should be okay in the short term.
Make sure he's not "pawing" at the sides trying to get out.

i have a heat lamp (150 watt i think) about 6 inches off of the top of hte cage, and theres another heat lamp near the cage, on a diffrent cage, but casting some heat on the top of the chameleon cage.

-Make sure the temp. at the basking site is around 85-90 deg.
mellers can heat stress easily, if it's too warm they will gape
and turn a light color. You will also need a uv flouresent
tube like repitsun 5.0 for d3 synthesis.

I'll start bringing it outside on a fake plant (the real one is too heavy to lug around) and using the misting attachment on hte hose for awile, infact this will probably encourage me to get some much needed gardening done...

ok, now, i should NOT block off the bottom of its cage?

-I wouldn't worry about this, just add some padding in case he falls again

how can i treat his feet without pissing him off? he didnt act like he was GOING to bite me, but he sure opened it wide at me when i started putting cream on his front feet. I havnt gotten at his back ones yet, i figured i should let him chill awile first.

-He is going to be pissed no matter what you do, so he'll have to deal with it. Just try to make the application sessions as short as possible. You can hold him in a towel with his head covered so he can't see, should relax him some.
You should also be giving him soaks in a large bucket, or bowl
with anti-bacterial agent added (i'm not sure of a safe product here, you should ask the vet) You can put him in a dark room,
or put a towel over the top so he doesn't try to climb out.

You can mix some plain old table salt into the water. This will clean and also help draw out any infection. Rinse his feet with clean water afterwards.
-----
~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

...
-----
~Melissa
1.0 Ambanja Panther (Diesel)
0.1 African Hegdehog (Kaimah)

Heya,

I just wanted to give my 2 cents on this one. There is some sound advice being dished out here and treating the feet is a good place to start, but if you take this guy out of his cage for antibiotic baths, showers etc etc he will kick it because of long term stress. He has been through enough and it doesn't sound like he has had time to adjust and with all this going on, he may never. Melleri's are very stress sensitive and NEED there rest and space. A Melleri confined to a small area will get frustrated and wonder causing more damage to his feet. A Mellerí kept in a large or open setup will remain on one spot throughout the day and give his feet a chance to heal. The best you can do is give him as much room as possible and leave him be as much as possible. Feed him well and varied. Melleri's can be fussy eaters. Offer him Grasshoppers, cockroaches (dubia's are well loved) and the larger cricket varieties. Give him alot of strong climbing branches and lots of hiding spots (away from you and most definatly your dog). If you do not, your dog will be the fine line between him feeling safe or not and surviving or not. I have brought Melleri's back from some pretty sad cases and they are truely fantastic chameleons but by no means would I ever suggest that someone starts with this specie. If you give him the room and rest you will have a good chance at succes if you do not, who knows.

All the best of luck for you and your Melleri.

René Imming.

P.s Drip systems are the only way to go for melleri's. Buy a dripper (costs about 5 to 10 dollars) and fill it up once or twice a day. Spray him twice a day to keep humidity levels up. Make sure whenever you spray that the cage dries up before you spray again. If you do not you could increase the chance of his current foot condition getting worse.

You are absolutely right about the food, stress,
and housing. It's very difficult to give good advise over a forum, esp. to someone who is not prepared for the "shock"
of bringing home a chameleon only to learn it's sick, and it's husbandry requirements are beyond what they expected. From my own (and my vets) experience, by the time
they start showing foot sores on all feet, the
infection is likely systemic and needs treatment.
But who knows... I'm just relaying what worked for me.

im bringing all his cage requirements up-to-protocal, and have read a few things about free-range, and am trying to figure out if i have a good safe place to do this with him (a shame we enver went through with the pool cage when we had the cash too, that would have been perfect)

unfortunatly, while it sounds like the vet is willing to arrange something payment wise, she just went out of town this AM, and her receptionist said she will be gone for a few days. This is as far as i know the only reliable exotic/reptile vet in the area, esp since even the other vets send you to her instead of accepting exotics. So i guess i am waiting until monday or so, but im hoping if he made it 5-6 months there he can make it another week to see hte vet.

now, while taking him out alot will stress him out too much, would doing something odd like bringing a glass inside his cage to soak/disinfect him in stress him as much?

and thank yoou all so much for continueing to respond and help me, if i do get him to pull through it will be because of you guys.

That would probably be ok (putting thedish in with him)> It may also help if you can find something bendy (twig, rope, etc) and make a "U" shape that he can grab onto, and you can dip him in. This might be easier for both of you. Just hold it near him and coax him onto it by pushing his butt a bit. Or, you can get it between his legs, under his belly and pull up a bit. These are ways to get him on that may be a little easier than handling him directly, if hes fiesty.
Good luck!! You are probably best to wait until mon for the vet. There isn't much I'd think that the other ones could do for him... also, try and take as many notes about Meller's specifically (and foot sores with them etc) to take. Some herp vets don't have experienc ewith ALL types of herps. You could say when you get there "I found this online, but I'm not sure what all to look for so I thought I'd brought him in. YOu can look over these if you want, they are specific to his species" to get the notes in there with out her/him taking it offensively.
My vet thought Orionw as in REALLY bad shape when he gave her a c-section cuz her insides were black.. .i found out that the species of panther chams has black insides... for example...
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)