Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have recently planted my terrium. I have no clue what will be housed in it, if there even will be. I can probably convince my parents into a fish or two.

It is a gravel bottom, which, contrairy to popular belief, is easy to do. I have set up a waterfall and a nice stream that leads to a pond (maybe fishies in there. Its fresh water, about 4x5 inches indiameter, and 1.5 inches deep. Any fish ideas?) I will soon put down a layer of moss to make it look purdy, too.

To the point, I currently have a bromliad and a low plant shrub-like plant (tropical, of course) planted in there. If you know anything about gravel bottoms, you will know the water level is the same all around the gravel. Since the plants are buried, I am worried about them drowning. They are all still in their origional plastic pots. I was thinking of silicone or hot glueing the holes in the bottom shut, and occasionally watering them. It this a good idea? The silicone has been used throught the terrium, and is 100% silicone with no mildew stopper thingies. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bromeliads need to be up on the sides of the terrariu, perhaps pegged to cork bark or cocoas fiber panels. They don't have roots, per se. The root extensions they exhibit are for securing them to trees or branches, not for taking up water or nutrients. They get their nourishment from the debris that collects in their leaf axils, along with the water they require. This is generalizing, but I don't know of any bromeliad that will survive in a swamp. We use them for dart frogs, because some darts breed and raise their tadpoles in bromeliad leaves, and other just like to lurk in them for extra moisture and security.

Whatever you set up, you need sharp drainage of the substrate, either into a false bottom or into a sump system. While you can have all kinds of waterways, falls, etc., splashing it, as long as it drains off and recirculates, it will be fine. You just don't want to create a stagnant swamp. Not every plant you try will be a success. Just pull up the failures and let those that prosper take over.
-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

There are a few species of bromiliads that are terrestrial. They grow on the ground, rooted in the soil. They are, however, larger and probably too big for most of our setups.

Thanks. How would I root it to the background?

Bromeliads and other epiphytes can be pegged to backgrounds such as pressed cocoas fiber, cocoa fiber matting, cork bark, etc. by bamboo skewers placed to support them until they form their own attachments, or even metal horseshoe shaped tacks. Remove them from the pots. I usually pack a little long fibered brown sphagnum moss around the base as well. The bromeliads are watered by spraying them with spring water using a hand new hand sprayer (can be purchsed at either a nursery or the household section of a grocery store.) Keep some water in the bromeliad cups at all times. Otherwise, they don't need wet roots.

I've posted this many times, but here it is again. This is my 135 gallon "palludarium," which is what one calls a combination of aquarium vivarium. The land portion contains Dendrobates galactonotus. The aquarium porion has small tropical fish like tetras and some of the smaller algae eaters in each section that keep the glass and logs clean. The deepest pool is 11 inches and the most shallow is 6 inches. Each section flows down over a glass barrier and a pump returns the water from the left end and back over two water falls, One is in the center in the lagoon and the other goes into the deeper pool. This also adds some extra denitrifying filtration as the plastic tubing becomes colonized with denitrifying bacteria that you can add in the beginning to stimulate this. There are small logs from each section to the land so that if the frogs inadvertently fall in, they have an easy egress. Mine have fallen in several times and can get right back out. While darts are terrestrial, they can swim rather well in a pinch. They do need an easy egress, however, or they might eventually drown if they can't get out. This particular set up has worked very well for about four years with only frequent partial water changes and soil topdressing, but now is in need of some major plant and soil revamping now, especially in the center portion. This photo was taken shortly after the frogs and fish were first introduced. The fish will eat the fruit flies that fall in the water, and one of the galacs in particular likes to go fishing by climbing down a log to the edge of the water. One time, he inadvertently caught a tiny baby platy fry. The frogs must communicate somehow, because within minutes of this wonderful catch, they were all down there lined up trying their luck. This was the only catch I ever witnessed, though.

You might not want to combine fish with the more toxic toads that like to soak, however.

In this setup, I used our local Mountain mahogany for the underwater egresses. This is a very dense wood and doesn't rot under water to land eggresses, but you can use other dense wood like cypress root, manzanita roots, Osage orange, etc.

Oh yes-- in this setup, the land area is only drained into a sump that is separated from the aquarium by the glass barriers that contain the aquarium portion. These were siliconed in. There is also taller glass behind each waterfall to keep the aquarium water from splashing back into the land section. There is no real false bottom, only a drainage area that I clear out by siphoning off the excess every once in awhile with an airhose tube.

I also tried some African dwarf frogs in the aquarium. They didn't prosper there, possibly because I also added some red clawed crabs tended to climb into the land section and compete with the land frogs for territory as well, so I removed them. They never actually hurt the land frogs, but seemed to annoy them. They may have been responsible for the death of a couple of ADF's before I caught on, however. I'm not sure.

I just hope this gives you some ideas of your own. Having a tropical aquarium with a submersible heater and the falls, etc. really keeps the entire tank temperatures stable, cooler in summer and warmer in winter than my house temperatures, and does a lot to stabilize humidity (especially the high humidity darts need.)

-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

snip "One is in the center in the lagoon and the other goes into the deeper pool. This also adds some extra denitrifying filtration as the plastic tubing becomes colonized with denitrifying bacteria that you can add in the beginning to stimulate this. There are small logs from each section to the land "

I think you mean nitrifying bacteria as bacteria that comsume nitrates are found in anoxic or anaerobic zones.

Ed

You're right, Ed. I meant nitrifying. (I'm getting senile and need a watchdog.) Denitrifying bacteria are strict anaerobes that utilize nitrogen in nitrate in lieu of oxygen and usually form either nitrous oxide or gaseous nitrogen by reduction. These wouldn't survive in an aerated environment. The Nitrosomas europea oxidizes ammonia to nitrite, while organisms such as Nitrobacter winogradskyi aerobically convert ammonia to nitrate. The commercial additives never seem to list the specific "beneficial" bacteria in their formulas, so I'm not sure what they are. Another benefit is that they compete with pathogens for space.
-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I'd have to dig out the reference so I can be sure but one of the two bacteria commonly believed to be responsible for part of nitrification has been checked and shown to lack the appropriate enzymes (I'm beat but its either Nitrobacter or Nitrosomonas).

Ed

While I've done some rather simple bacterial count water testing (for purity) in the past, I've never done much other work with soils and water, and have been retired for four years, so I'm losing memory of even some of the routine microbiology and parasitology stuff I did daily for 50 years, as well as the yearly continuing education seminars that are required. I still attend the seminars, just to keep up my licenses, but now I only attend the weird, far-out seminars on subjects like "Life in Outer Space," and "Environmental Metal/Microbial Interactions," which are interesting as long as I am able to stay awake at the hibernation temperatures most seminars are conducted in, but totally irrelevant to anything I could apply it to practically.

The reference I used was Topley and Wilson's four volume Microbiology and Microbial Infectons, 9th ed. Vol. 2, (Systemic Bacteriology),1998. p. 70 & 135. These were the only two organisms they listed, but they did refer to "and other organisms." Let me know what you find when you get the time. You probably have access to some better soil and water related referrences than I have on hand.

In using these bacterial inoculation products, it has always frustrated me that they don't have to list the "ingredients," so to speak.
-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

The item I find most interesting is that you can probably inoculate the system more efficiently via a soil wash (from fresh soil) than any of the products you can purchase on the market.

Here you go
Hovanee, T.A.; Taylor, L.T.; Blakis, A.; DeLong, E.F.; 1998; Nitrospira like bacteria associated with nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria; Appl. Environ. Microbiol. 64: 258-264

Burrell, P.C.; Phalen, C.M.; Hovanee, T.A.; Identification of bacteria responsiable for ammonia oxidation in freshwater aquaria, Appl. Environ. Microbiol. 67: 5791-5800

Additionally PCR analysis of the ribosomes of Nitrobacter failed to indicate the ability to oxidize nitrite.

Ed

Thanks, Ed. I love the thing about inoculating with soil wash rather than using the products on the market. It makes perfect sense. I live in the sticks and have a septic tank, so was always getting calls from marketers that I should purchase this septic tank "aide," at an outrageous price, of course. I finally did, even though nothing has ever been wrong with my septic tank except for some tree roots, and got a whole rather expensive carton of stuff to flush down my toilet on a monthy basis, "to insure proper digestion of the septic tank." They did list the bacteria that were supposed to do this miracle. It was nothing but the normal bowel flora we flush down every time we take a dump. Why flush anything else down, unless no one in the family has had a bowel movement for a year? We really get taken in with this kind of promotion, even when at least I should have known better.
-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

It is a better and more effective method for introducing nitrifying bacteria into an enclosure. If you think about it and filter it through some filter paper you can even remove potential parasites while allowing the bacteria to pass through.
I also live in the sticks in Southern NJ and have a septic system but I have not been targeted for products that are dubious at best.

Ed

it's a hard thing to do, setting up the nitrogen cycle so that your bacteria or microfuana are producing inorganic waste; nitrogen and co2.

you'd be best off by introducing some hetatrphic bacteria and some pill bugs.

also, gravel bottoms shouldn't have water in them. your water sounds too high to keep the plants healthy.

Deven
Terra5Designs
need plants?

Bromes actually get their nutrients from their root systems.
i've got a great photo of sme grwoing in a tree at my home page.

but yes they do need drier roots, not wet or soggy. grow them up higher, in cork or tree fern panel or like i've done, in branches by drilling a hole, and placing them in it.

you shouldn't have that much water in a gravel bottom like that. let it breath!

also, learn where each plants need to live, what it will take to keep it growing and you'll be happy. epiphytes don't like the ground, but grow them on coark bark or tree fern panel and they thrive, terrestrial plants don't like soggy soil, let the soil breath and they will grow like nothing you've seen!!!

Deven
Terra5Designs
http://www.terra5designs.com/supplies.plants