Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Alright I didn't want the whole thread to be about feeding. That was just an afterthought... so I am seperateing the topics.

I really do need to know about marking snakes... I plan to keep several together and want to be able to tell them appart into adulthood. My vet suggested a type of marker but I don't recall what it was now and I thought I'd try to get some ideas before asking her again.

Thank you.

- Sharon

I think most people haven't responded because it's just not a very good idea. Your snakes are probably going to opaque and shed around the same time, and you won't always be there to catch them when they do.
You'll lose track of them every time they do this, because they'll shed the mark with their skin.
You could probably use just about anything--a waterproof nontoxic marker pen or dab of paint, for example. So long as it isn't toxic, and won't wash off when they bathe, it will work....but only until they shed.
There are other reasons to seperate them. They can and will eat each other, you see. That is a very real danger.

Hi,

well like mentioned before they shed and the marker wont stay on and they can get mixed up once again. How many do you have and how many do you plan to keep together?

If you are conserned with their feeding, best bet is to seperate them each time you feed them (whether it just be fish in a bowl) to make sure each snake is getting its share. I would use this method if I have several buggers slithering around like I do now (29) of them!

If you plan on keeping say 4 as pets and kept together then a bowl with fish at all times and a dowl with fresh water is fine. Then you could take each out in its own rubbermaid bin and feed it whatever you have on the menu (toads, frogs, mice, worms).

But I doubt in any way that you could tell them apart unless they have very distinct color patterns or totally different personalitys. If you still want to be able to tell them apart, a rack system or display system with a little bit above the minimum required space in each compartment would be great.

Hope this helps,

Lu

Hello.

Thanks both of you for the replys. I currently feed my adults seperate. Mostly because Big Momma is such an argressive feeder that Bob doesn't get much.

As for babies... I have seen two of them (acctually I've seen THREE once) grab the same earthworm and I can see where one would easely swallow the other.

I'm expecting Big Momma to have babies. But I don't know how many. The first year she had them I didn't know I had a male and female. I didn't hibernate and I ended up with three still births and a bunch of unfertilized eggs (Which i've seen referenced here as "slugs"

Last year she had them a week later then the first year (first year July 4th second about the 18th) and 10 of them were still born, about 3 slugs and 6 live. I'm hopeing she does better each year. The vet told me (did necropsy) that the still births looked fine except they had seperated from the ah.. I know it's not a placenta in reptiles... um the nutrital sac? probally a week before birth..... It makes me think Big Momma may hold the babies too long. (exp sence other people with the same kind of snake have had theirs give birth already) I have tryed to make her cage ah nicer and took out Bob so she is by herself. Of course I am not sure she IS pregnate... she doesn't show well when carring and I never see them mating... I just have to assume and pray.

Anyway... when/if she has them I will seperate them I have small cages... and if she has more then 10 I will at least feed seperate.

I am buying two babies of the same speices from somoene and I want to take two of Big Momma's babies this year and put them with the two I am buying and raise them together. This is why I want to try to tell them appart... the females will grow larger but I want to be able to tell Big Momma's offspring from the others. (I won't know what sex her's are until later I can't sex them and my vet won't until they are adults... The ones I'm buying though will be sexed... yes I know I'm takeing a risk and may end up with 3 males and 1 female... but the other way around would be nice. )

I am fairly good at telling when they are about to shed... and it is a few days between their eyes going milky and them accutally sheding so I hope I'd be able to seperate at that time. Also... I don't *know* what markers would be non-toxic... do you guys have brand names?

Thanks agian
- Sharon

Hey, sorry to hear about all you losses. You can try to hibernate her and the male longer and at a cooler temp. As for the vet well Common Garter snakes are

Placental Vivapary meaning that: they developed entirely inside the mother, and they where connected by a placental organ. and garter snakes are the most familiar species that does this. The babies of garter snakes are nurished by the mother unlike Viviopary snakes which lay ready to babies that have hatched from the eggs inside the mother but not nurished by her.

The babies: Garters can have plenty (lol) and you can keep them in a warm room in rubbermaid containers that will cost you say (about 2.00 for a 20 gt contaniner) which is good for several babies. Feed them seperatly in deli cups with lids and just have a dish with small guppies at all times. Im sure they will be happy and you will be happy also, but try to cool the mother and father down a little more and a little longer than before. That may very well be the reason why she is have still borns.

O and also do you use underheat?

Lu

Garters are ovoviparous, so it'd be a yolk sack--it's essentially a shell-less egg that they lay when the babies are ready to hatch.

As for markers, Crayolas are non-toxic, but generally not waterproof.

Hello again.

Ok... I hibernate from late nov through feb. I try for 50 degrees... though I think it fluctuates... I'm not going into how I've done it now (I'm in a one bedroom condo btw) but I am seriously thinking of buying a mini-fridge so I can keep the temp constent. (note the care sheets I have found said around 50)... they are from FLORIDA and some people have said they don't really need to hibernate... but I feel it helps.

Yes I do under the cage heating... I feel belly heat works better for digestion. That I I can't do a blub as well with my cats... (I have a larger cage for my bearded and so the cats don't bug the lights on his)

Though technatly the snake in question allso uses the cats for warmth.... See she is in a 20gal cage and when I first got the cage I had two ribbons in it... the screen that came with the cage did not hold my cats' weight and it ripped. So I had to buy another top. Luclkly I hadn't tossed the old one yet... because the way the cage was constructed it was a slide in. The new top had a heaver screen but was an "over the top" so it ended up leaving a small gap... long story short I have to use both tops in order to keep snakes from escapeing. And big momma likes going between the screens (there is a nice gap... you'd have to see it) and the cats like to lay on top. exp if I put a towel up there. Big momma doesn't care though and for the most part my cats ignore my snakes... Sometimes it's screen, snake, screen, cat. and I'm SURE the cats radiate alot of heat.

On the markers... well.. it can't disolve in water so that's out but thanks for the sugestion.

(yeah I know I'm answering two people at once... )
- Sharon

Hey, I have herd that undertank heating can cause the babies to die because of overheat due to the fact the snakes dont have many heat sensory organs on their ventral side. "That is why heat rocks arent reccomended because snake react slower to heat and get burned." From what I understand rack systems have a toll on the numnber of babies delivered other than to heat from above "like a lamp" on the snakes dorsal side. I have both types of heating but the undertank heating is controlled with a thermostat so the floor only gets to 82.

I am going to look for you to see how you can identify the snakes better, the thought of a marker is kinda weird....I mean you do that to keep track of eggs......we'll think of something I'm sure.......but its not like you could tie a bow around a snakes neck....lol

Luis

I've acctually thought of the bow thing. Just for fun.

I'm not sure if it would hurt them or not though.

And... I've monitored the cage heaters and they get to about 80 with substraight on them... no more then 90 without... I am going to post a seperate topic on it tonight (I hope) when I get home from work.

- Sharon

Using a fridge for hibernation isn't a great idea, I lost a bunch of my breeders that were hibernating in a fridge. I had removed the molding for air circulation but I still lost half of them. I chatted with Scott Felzer about it. It seems that the fridge has high humidity and that is a big problem with garters... You can email Scott for more advice!

Well these are Florida garters and they NEED a high humidiaty (over 50%) in colorado I have a hard time doing that so to me that would be GREAT.
The big thing would be how "air tight" the frige would be...

So I'll quickly tell you how I normally hibernate.
I put them in a small cage and stick them in a cooler... you know the picknic coolers. Then I freeze water in bottles (the water is 2/3 of the bottle btw so I don't end up breaking the bottle when it converts to ice which takes up more space)
Anyway I put the bottles in the cooler around the cage... and the cooler in my closit. I have to change the bottles (if I remember) every day or everyother day to keep the temp at about 50 degrees.

With a fridge I'd just set it and check the temps way before acctually putting the snakes in and then I'd put them in small round containers with holes and stack em. That's the plan anyway...
But I am not sure if the fridge is more airtight then the coolers. I'd probrablly check on them every few days. Generaly speaking they shouldn't be breathing as much anyway...

- on another forum soemone who's bearded dragon escaped thought he had died... she couldn't even pick up a heart beat with a stethoscope... so she bured him in a tide box. 2 to 3 months later someone heard scratching under the ground... . yes the dragon was alive... you think he would have sufficated... so I think hibernation seriously slows them down to the point where they are hardly breathing and hardly have a heartbeat.

Why do you think you lost yours? too cold? not enough air?

- Sharon

I called Scott Felzer and asked him about it. He said it was the humidity that caused the problems. I had the temp at about 45 to 50 degrees. I had removed the molding from the top and bottom of the door so there was no airtight seal. High humidity causes serious skin problems with garters.