Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This nation never had even so much as a choice to elect a candidate that reaches the AMERICAN public. Both Bush and Kerry are as far removed from the common working man as Reptile breeders are away from Pyrotechnic technicians.

The media hyped both up. Bush won. And Kerry conceded defeat QUICKLY so as not to DIVIDE!1 the Nation..lol

Divide..its allready divided! And THAt is what the republican and democratic parties played on. The election was one with the help of God fearing Christians who fed into Bushs moral rhetoric about about abortion and gay marriage and stwem cell research..all the while killing iraq women and children and men.

Sorry for the typos..but the sheer ignorance of people sometimes pisses me off.

There never was a choice.

4 more years of empire!!

On to Rome!!

Fred Albury

Fred,

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, however, I think you're blaming Bush for a little more than you ought to blame him for. I'll give SOME blame to him. But, don't forget how activist judges, far out gay rights advocates and radical left wing liberal liars like micheal moron and rich liberal pigs like Soros activated the right wing conservatives so much. When you have BOTH sides, going so outlandishly far with their perverted agendas.... this is what happens. I like your "On to rome" statement. That's what we ALL should be worried a little about. Rome DID fall. Will WE ? Fred, I respect you because I know you (as well as people can know each other online), and ignorance pisses ME off too. Ignorance on BOTH sides of the fence.
Thanes Place

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Thane

I think when you have two complete idiots running for office.The moral issues are going to win.Shows that people are less worried about their money.I wiss someone would discuss the real issues that I want addressed.Such as sealing the borders(no more immigration)and the stoppage of giving aid to other countries.We need plenty of help here.Just for the record I was going to vote for kerry.But after thinking about my kid and how sick people are nowadays.I decided republicans are the only ones who will stick up for the morals this country were founded on.What's next for the dems?Are they going to let people marry their dogs?

Marry their dogs???? Are you related to Zel Miller? LOL

EP
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Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2.1.10 corns(candy cane, creamsicle, ghost, 6 normal, 4 anery )
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
1 fish
1 mouse
3.3 cats

Now...Now....Stop this talk about ex-spouses....! (lol)

The problem with "America's morals" winning out is that they differ from region to region and person to person. Personally I don't want a bunch of Fundimentalist crap jammed down our throats by being introduced into the constitution.

That is one big thing that drove me from my normaly right wing turf.

The Biggest thing Kerry said that I felt was right was when he said he would go against his personal convictions and be president of all the people.

One of the most dangerous things there is would be a single group gaining enough power to be able to inflict their brand of what is moral on the country.

Am I in favor of Gay marrige? No...But i would favor a partnership arraingement with similar legal rights. But before I would vote to stop Gay marrige, I would ask myself two questions:

1) Do I have the right to legislate someone else's lifestyle that has no effect on me and is hurting no one?
(and before we go into it's against God..I ask whose? Fortunately we do not have a state religion yet. Though not for lack of trying...)

2) By doing so do I really want the government to take away free will and decide what can or cannot go on in my bedroom? because that is what we are opening the door to.

When we seek to take away the rights of others we usually succeed in taking away our own as well.

That's something the "moralist's" seem to avoid mentioning.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

You liked Kerry because he was willing to go against his personal beliefs? What ever! He evidently has no true core otherwise he wouldn't be so willing to change. I want someone who has strong core beliefs and isn't afraid to stick to them. That's true leadership.

Personal morals can differ but, the issues at hand here are the core issues that this country was founded on. The liberals can attempt to re-write history all they want but it doesn't change the fact that this country was founded on God's principles.

As for the issue Conservatives jamming their beliefs down others throats, what in the heck do you think the libs have been doing with the whole gay marriage thing. They know the American people would never vote in large to accept such depravity so, they tried to take it to the courts and have it imposed on us. I'm sorry but, that's not the way things are supposed to work!

If they truly believe that gays should be allowed to marry they should take the time to "educate" (puking) the people and let them decide for themselves. Even if it takes many years to do so. I hope they learned from all the backlash that came from their most recent attempts to force feed us!

Eric

No offence Eric, but I think it is more like you want someone who has "YOUR" core beliefs.

I don't see why you are threatened by what goes on in other peoples lives. Will it change what you and your fellows believe in, or the way you choose to live? NO.

But one of the things that is most fearsome is that certain religious groups cannot practice "live and let live." Instead they try to force one set of beliefs (theirs) on everybody.

As I said above...When you take rights away from some you take it from all.

Look at Kansas and Tennessee. Both states tried to force the teaching of the Evolutionary theory out of schools. Agree or disagree...they literaly took the right for anyone to evaluate the evidence for or against (and thus make up their mind based on a accurate presentation of the facts)in an educational setting.

That is the problem with inforcing just one group's core values. Inevidably it will corrupt the system much as the Mullahs control the Moslem goverments.

(off to the gym..so I will answer rebuttals later...)

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Some religious groups use the founding fathers to justify their moral initiatives as being the only correct ones. This is misleading...

Our founding fathers (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin....etc...) came from English stock. They had seen Catholic persecute Protestant and vise versa depending on who sat on the English throne. Many had been witness to persecution of minority religions.

It was never their intent to establish a dominant "state religion". That is why the doctrine of Separation of Church and State was initiated.

It is sad that some of the groups that exist due to that concept wish to corrupt it to gain dominance over other ideas.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Good post. My closest friend has become very, very religious over the past several years. We have had many discussions as to why he thinks the way he does and vice versa. Im obviously on the left, and while I wont say there is no god, I just cant accept there only being one true god and all others be damned. As for gay marriage, I dont care what someone else does. Some say marriage is sacred and will be ruined if this happens. Maybe if half of all marriages didnt end in divorce now this argument would have a little more validity. And who are you to spend your 75 years on earth telling people what is right and wrong. If your god does indeed exist cant you take comfort in knowing that god will make them suffer in hell for eternity.
I think that religion is a good thing and can help to guide people in their life in a positive way, but it can just as easily be used to justify discrimination and hatred, and this is where my problem is.

EP
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Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2.1.10 corns(candy cane, creamsicle, ghost, 6 normal, 4 anery )
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
1 fish
1 mouse
3.3 cats

the reason why half of all married couple divorce is because they are not godly people.I wish they would do a survey on how many of those married couples went to church on a weekly basis.Probally about 1%.You can get married in court, on a boat by the captain,Or by the mayor.This is not how it was meant to be.Letting gays marry will screw things up worse and make peoples perseption of marraige worse.

Give me a break....Some of the worst marriges I have ever heard of have been those of Religious People. My wife works for Women in Distress (a refuge in Broward Co. Fla.for battered women) as a volunteer. It might surprise you how many women are battered, raped and abused and hide that because their religion tells them to obey their husbands.

It did not keep my wife's religious first husband from beating her, stealing from her and cheating on her. She suffered his abuse because her religion taught her to stand by her husband and raise her children, which is what she did. She is still paying because this "God fearing" man constantly seeks his revenge on her using the courts, since he is rich enough to vex her with endless ridiculous lawsuits (that he can afford to lose) as well as stalking her (just within legal range)to make her pay for leaving him.

If you want to look to why marriges fail, it has more to do with lack of communication and respect. Also with a world where both parents have to work and the kids are raised on TV and the streets if they can't afford daycare, so there is no family unity like in the old days.

Marrige is not found on the pulpit...It is found in the heart. A priest, minister Rabbi, shaman or justice of the peace preforming the ceremony has nothing to do with the success or failure of a marrige.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

How many instances did this occur?Just spewing out afeww cases does'nt mean anything When hundreds and hundreds of women are beaten buy their husbands.Just like child molesting preists.Compared to the 100,000 other child molesters the number is insignificant.There is always the odd occurance.Then everybody wants to make a broad generalization.Nice try.

A few cases? Is your head burried in the sand or what? But I see from your "Priest example" you are one of those who use's dubious statistics to cover your act. Locally we have had at least five Catholic priests in our area out of ...to be generous maybe thirty or so, that have been caught child molesting in the last two years.

Statistics from The National Coalition Against Domestic Violence:

In the United States;

At least one woman is battered every 15 seconds.

Four women die as a result every day.

The total of abused women each year is between 2-6 million

50% of all women will be battered by their intimate partner at least once in their life.

25% of women assaulted this year will be experience repeat assaults over the next year.

Battering is socially tolerated (among other reasons)because:

Some Religions instruct women to to submit to violent husbands.

The delusion that violence only occurs in other cultures, economic groups and races...etc.

Our local org. Handles over two thousand local cases (Broward County).

For more stats look at Women In Distress.com

I am not blowing smoke. Sorry, but I have met many of these women personally and my wife has worked with more. Sit down and listen to their stories like I have and then tell me "Nice try."

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

And for the record. I do not have an exact statistic for how many of these cases are from religious families. Only my families personal experience. But I can attest that it is very common for women to tell us they stay with their abuser because of religious beliefs. In my area we have a strong populations of Cathlolic, Southern Baptist and Jewish. We are gaining numbers of moselums. No one religion stands out as having more or less.

It is not unreasonable to assume that the situation is not any different in any part of the country.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Why even respond if your not going to back up your claim.You personal experience does'nt mean anything when compared to the numbers you just threw out.I bet less than two percent of those where from weekly church going couples.Prove me wrong.You won't be able to.

I have offered what statistics are available to me at this time (which are not the best, I'll grant) The main thing I can offer is eye witness evidence (including my wife's seven years as a volunteer at WID)...which you chose to discount based on your "experience?" How much time and effort have you spent helping at a Battered women's shelter? Not any I think.

It is easy to deny the reasons for what is going on when you have never really been exposed to the problem outside of the occasional news story (which you likely ignored or changed the channel on). Your statements show that you really have ever spent anytime thinking about this before you entered this thread. Try spending time in the trenches and meeting the people as we have. But then, we are only seeing a small percentage...right?

There is no more I can offer short of having you sit down and listen to the stories from all of the victims we and our associates talked to. But then (if it was even possible) you would probably say they were lying about their religious backgrounds (They all deserve what happens to them because they are sinful..right?). But then you say only represent a very small percentage and so don't count...wouldn't you? It is easier just to say that what we have seen is just a "local" experience and it is completly different everywhere else (sure it is....).

No one I know keeps statistics of what percentage of abuse victims are religious. For these agencies the issue is abuse and while Religion is very often a factor, I believe it is not something they are allowed to apply statistics to (as a goverment agency) any more than they can to race. As the wife is not home, I will ask her later if she can supply anything along that line, as she is much more familiar with where to look.

So I guess for now you will have to claim whatever victory you seem to want out of this. It doesn't change the truth. It just means there is one more person out there, who is only willing to see his view of the picture. But then...IF you are so right...Prove me wrong...Lets see some of your statistics that show that only godless people abuse. (I guess I never realized that the world was overwhelmingly occupied by Atheists)Lets hear about your experiences...This should be interesting.

Put it up...

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

You said "half of all married couples divorce because they are noT godly people."

Want to tell us where that "statistic" came from?

Lets see proof...or are you afraid to meet your own criteria?

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

You are the one who said religous people beat their wives all the time.I called you on it now put up or shut up.

Where did I say religious people "beat their wives all the time?"

NOWHERE.

You however made a blanket statement that you refuse to defend.

In fact you have added nothing useful to this thread at all and just make outlandish statements.

And you are just plain RUDE.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

There may not be any stats to prove he is right but there are probably not any stats that back your claim either. What does going to church every week have to do with being a good christian. Some people that dont go to church at all are probably better christians than some who go every week. Your claim is baseless.

EP
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Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2.1.10 corns(candy cane, creamsicle, ghost, 6 normal, 4 anery )
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
1 fish
1 mouse
3.3 cats

You statement about you don't have to go to church to be a good christian shows you ingnorance.Keep telling yourself that.

Forget it...This person just wants a pulpit to preach from. A real waste of everyone's time.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

.
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Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2.1.10 corns(candy cane, creamsicle, ghost, 6 normal, 4 anery )
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
1 fish
1 mouse
3.3 cats

NP

"Fred, I respect you because I know you (as well as people can know each other online), and ignorance pisses ME off too. Ignorance on BOTH sides of the fence".

Good think you didn't know Dhamer, as you probably would have "respected" him to....just because you "knew" him, lol! Perhaps you missed that lengthy thread about Albury on the BOI? It certainly doesn't do squat for his credibility on any front. Perhaps hob-nobbin with crooks is your forte.

Dhamer-N-me, we were pals.

battabing battabing battaboom battaboom battabing battabing battaboom battaboom battabing battabing battaboom battaboom

Battabozo uhhhh. What... who's it whatsit ?
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Thane