Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As for breeding age goes it depends on the dragon. Some dragons will breed before one year and be fine others won't. A dragon that hits 400 grams in under a year and stabilized there and takes on all adult characteristics is ready to breed. A dragon can hit 500 grams at under a year and not develop its adult characteristics yet and therefor isn't ready to breed. I have an awesome orange dragon male, put him with a female and he does nothing, yet he is my biggest dragon at 505 grams yesterday. Oh well he isn't ready to breed the ladies yet. I put a male and a female together and you can tell if the female is receptive to the male by her actions. Immature females act very differently then fully matured females act. This is my opinion. I do however think that male and female dragons should be seperated after the first 3-4 months though, because the males could develop maturity first and start to breed the female before she is ready. Although he may not impregnate her, he will cause her undo stress. However you can tell when a dragon is ready to breed. Alot of people on her breed at one year of age, some won't admit it some will. Kevin from dragon's den has said he has done it and has had dragons go strong into year 5. You have to be observant of your dragon's behavior and it will tell you when it is ready to breed. There are clear differences between juvinille dragons and adults and the differences are very clear and can crop up over night. Also 18 months is a not so magical time, as if the dragon burmates the first year 18 months is probably too young, possibly even worse than 12 months of a dragon that did not brumate in its first year. I also believe clutch number has something to do with it. A first clutch dragon I believe grow and mature much faster than 2nd 3rd clutch dragons, this is my opinion also. Just wanted to throw out another point of view.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Yes, I've had dragons bigger then some breeders at four months. I'm really new into breeding reptiles though. So I've decsided that I would rather be safe then sorry. I have a Male that is about a year old. He's almost 22 inches and 698 grams yet is still growing every time I measure and weigh him. He was showing breeding behavior at four months old. I was told that the reason for not breeding a male too early is the risk of a prolapse do to the dragon not being fully developed. Just the thought of that made me decside to wait. My females are all over 19 inches at 10 months and both over 500 grams. Being that I'm a beginner I just took the suggestions. I'm sure some breeders would have had my dragons gravid by now. But I can wait if it is healthier for my dragons. How exactly can you tell your females are ready, or able to produce eggs at younger then 18 months?
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Photos

If a female does not want to copulate with a male copulation will not occur. My 500 gram female won't let a male copulate with her, she is over 18 months old. I tend to breed my dragons on the floor of my reptile room. When a male and female are introduced the body language says alot to what the outcome of attempted breeding will be. Females will run away and hide if they aren't receptive. Or the male will get them and they will not coroporate with the breeding. In which case it doesn't occur. If the female flairs her beard and they start to circle it is a pretty sure sign that no copulation will be occuring so the dragons are seperated, as to avoid injury. Even if copulation does occur the female may not develop eggs. The female that I witnissed the earliest breeding didn't lay a clutch until a female breed after he had laid 3 clutches. They only develop eggs (once mature) if they are ready to. This is the case with my big girl I hope. I would love for her to breed however if she doesn't oh well. Some may disagree with me on this but you can sort of tell and if kept seperate the female I believe will only develop eggs when ready. The prolapse thing might be an issue, but my males have all been older than 18 months when breed. Some of my females under 18 months. My big orange boy doesn't act manly so I let him be he will breed in time.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I've at times put the females and males together out in my living room. They do interact the male bobbs and the female waves and bows her head. I believe they are ready cause once the male darted at her pinned her and she was just under him waving. I since have not let them out together cause I felt bad for the male, and female. The male was all hot and botherd and acted depressed for the next week or so with his mind on the females, and the female got bit and pinned for no reason. So I figure when the time comes they will go for it, but I can wait till the suggested time for safty. It's really a lot of responsibility to have all those babies so I figure the more I learn and study before the better I'll be when the time comes. I'm not saying that I'm not very excited though. I bought an incubater already,lol and have been thinking about it for a year already. Really can't wait...So excited!!!
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Photos

I have a 9 year old female that is still breeding. Last summer she had 2 clutches. And she has a very good hatch rate. As a matter of fact all the eggs hatched last summer. She has been breeding since the age of one. And she hasnt stopped for a season yet. I think she'll only produce one clutch this season though. I think shes gravid right now actually. A lot of people have been saying negitive things about breeding your dragons too early. And in some cases they are right. People are breeding dragons too early and they get stunted and produce smaller clutches. But if they show the right signs of maturaty and are big enough then they are ready. Every dragon is different some take 18 months some take 12. So if someone breeds at one year then good for them. Anyways just my two cents.

peace,
nathan

I don't think 18 mo. is a magical number, as you said, but I will continue to suggest it as a breeding age.
You have to know your dragon and know the signs, agreed again.
Here's the "BUT", so many newbies are ready to jump into breeding ASAP, barely knowing how to care for their new dragons that they've had just a few months. Many seem to think they are going to make a fortune and want to get at it immediately.
Telling them that 18 months is a safe age has most likely saved a few dragons lives and made for a healthier Mama and hatchlings.
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TheClassyLizard

I agree. Alot of people jump into it before they should. Alot of people seem to think that 18 month is a golden number though. And it isn't a golden number. It could be shorter, or longer. It all comes down to knowing your dragon and providing them careful attention.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

So, does that mean a human girl aged 12 years old who's 5'10" and weighs 150lbs is physically ready to have a child?

Size is not the only issue when it comes to determining breeding age of ANY animal.
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

Mentally ready, no. Able to care for a child, no. Physically able to cary a baby safely, if she is menstrating probably. Is it a good idea NO!!! Back in the day people started to have children at a much younger age, probably around say 12-13 years old. But we only lived 25 years back then. If a dragon isn't ready to breed it won't, if it ovulates it is ready. if it ovulates it could develop infertile eggs which can be more dangerous. Generally if a dragon is big enough and has stopped growing and displays adult behaviors it is ready. If it is 24 months old weighs 200 grams and still seems to be a juvinile it isn't ready. you have to know dragons to determine when a dragon is ready.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I didn't say mentally, or physically ABLE, I said physically READY.

No, she's not, because she herself is still developing.

Like you said, people used to have children around the age of 12-13, and were living to 25. What does that say about the potential longevity of dragons, and their offspring, that start dropping eggs at 6-9 months old?

Generally if a dragon is big enough and has stopped growing and displays adult behaviors it is ready.

How can you tell, at just a year old, that a dragon has stopped growing?

When Sandy was 1yr old, she was bigger than 90% of the adults we see for sale at shows. She just turned 2 a couple of weeks ago, and in that last year, she's gained another 150g, and 4" in length. Yes, she was big enough, had she finished growing and developing herself? No. Would it have been a good idea to breed her at 12 months? No.

We have one right now that's 8 months old, 19" long, and when we last weighed her 3 weeks ago, she as 365g. You're telling me you'd breed this one? Even though she's probably got at least another 10 months of growth left?
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

Back in the day we lived to 25 because lack of medical care. I weigh my dragons monthly. If a dragon goes 2 months and doesn't gain weight while eating normally and clear of disease it is pretty much done growing. Adult dragons weigh from 300-700 grams. It all depends. It is safe to breed dragons before 18 months. Sources that have said they do it Dragon's Den also The Bearded Dragon Manual, by Philippe de Vosjoli and Robert Mailloux (Sandfire). Paraphrasing it is possible under extreme rairing to breed a dragon at 5-6 months. It is possible for dragons to have 2-3 clutches before their first birthday and up to 7 clutches before the age of 24 months. If these two aren't the peak of top notch breeders I do not know who is. I do not think if it was thought to be dangerous to the dragons health that it would be in print in The Bearded Dragon manual. Not all dragons will be ready this early, but SOME are. Just my opinion, and the opinion of two of the top breeders in the industry. And some girls are done maturing physically by 12 years old, most aren't it is natural variability in living things.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

The Bearded Dragon Manual, by Philippe de Vosjoli and Robert Mailloux (Sandfire).

Look at your sources.. Sandfire, yes, quite possibly some of the best dragons out there, but we got a dragon from Bob last year that the Daytona show, and he has gout.

Which means that either Bob doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't take great care of his dragons (which I seriously don't beileve. Bob's dragons are very healthy given the circumstances), or it's genetic. Either through too much inbreeding, or breeding parents too young.

Whatever the reason, I would not hold that reference in very high regard.
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

Ok so you think the big breeders breed too early, I could tend to agree with that to an extent because if it were to cause serious helth risks I don't think they would. But the book is in press and it wasn't just from Bob Mailloux, it was from Philippe de Vosjoli and several well respected veterinarians. If there was evidence that breeding at such a young age caused problems I am sure they wouldn't want their names on it. Sorry to hear you have a dragon with gout, that is usually caused by insufficient water and/or excess heat. I have never read anywhere that it is inherited. There is no doubt that sandfire dragon's are somewhat inbreed as is the case with all color morphs, that is how they were created. However I have never seen published that breeding too young is horrible for offspring and/or the parents, unless of course you are talking about dragons that breed at 4 months because they were housed together.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

And I can go find a whole bunch of books that say it's safe to feed pinkies, crickets, hamburger meat & monkey chow to an iguana. A single solitary source of information means nothing. Even several sources of information mean nothing when they're all parrotting things they've all read in the same book.

Our dragon has had exactly the same treatment as all our other dragons which are healthy. And maybe the gout was caused by Bob's mistreatment of him, it's possible. He already had the gout BEFORE we got him. It wasn't until he'd had X-Rays done that we found out exactly what the problem was. And there certainly are genetic cases of gout. Just hit the search engines and search for familial gout.

The dragons I'm talking about, that shouldn't be bred, are the ones that are still growing at the age of 15-18 months, which is damn near most of them.
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms