Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I really don't care what someone's opinion is regarding many of the issues that are dicussed here if they are presented thoughtfully and factually. What I do mind is someone coming on to push a point of view using rumors and many inconsistancies as a basis for attacking someone else's point of view and character. Occasionally I feel the need to post about this and Herman often is the one who inspires me to post.
The most flagrant new inconsistancy from Herman regards the issue of aberrant pattern.

In a thread about albino boas below Herman writes

"I think aberrant pattern or color has to be regarded as a kind of genetic defect. And who wants to give the guarentee that there are no futher(hidden) genetic defects in such an animal"

On it's own this is a resonable point of view.
What makes this interesting is 2 different things:

1- In a recent thread Herman stated that he bought aberrant surinams whose grandfather was aberrant. He backpeddled on whether it was genetic or not but given the more recent quote from him above, why would he buy these animals.

2- On his web site Herman has pictures of boas with the caption
COSAT RICA cb 20.04.03
Beneath this he comments
SOME OF THE ANIMALS HAVE STRIPED TAILS

This is the problem. To make a point against albino boas Herman gives the above quote about aberrant pattern and then in his own web site to advetize his animals he highlights that some of them have an aberrant pattern(striping).Obviously there is a contradiction here and it is similar to his admitting that he previously bought albino boas with the intention of breeding them even though he states he is against them. Also in the thread about the Arabqesque boas Herman used the example of reports about the Iraq war and the material for a Powell speach to state that articles can't be believed and yet he uses articles in several places in his web site to support his points of view.

I certainly have no illusions that my posts will change Herman's mind. However, just as he seeks to push his position to new readers and to rehash old subjects I feel it is occasionally necessary for those same readers to see the inconsistancy in those arguments.

I am sorry that this ever has to be an issue on this forum. Since we have a forum for everything else why not a local specific forum or morph forum. It would be interesting to see what herpers really respect the write of others to have their own opinion by what was posted in the respective forums.

Bill Kirby

I am at work and a bit rushed.

issue,that is a possibility,but the truth is,I don't think there really is any kind of "division" between morphers and locale breeders.I can not think of one single morph breeder who is anything but happy(or indifferent at least) for the locale breeder when he successfully produces a litter.I can only think of one locale breeder who really gives a rat's arske if a new litter of morphs come into the world.I am also convinced that Herman just likes to pull our chains...which is ok until it becomes a personal vendetta.

Truth is that most people have both,like both,admire the projects that others have going.

Np

I is correct that a few of my 20 Costa Rica Babies has some stripes at their tails. But I would say that it is not uncommon that a few partially striped boas are within a litter. Mostly it is not genetic but happens during the gestation period.

Anyway, both parents don't have stripes.

There are people who like stripes and the babies are born and therefore I offer it. Or would you suggest that I should bring the babies to the vet for euthanization?

And, I apologize for buying two normal looking surinam redtail boa babies 5 years ago out of a litter whose father has had a striped tail.

Although the two normal looking animals I have purchased brought me a litter of 21 babies this year (with two or three partially striped ones) I will bring them to the vet for euthanization also.

Worst thing, I imported 6 years ago a bolivian amarali from the U.S.

I was shocked when I opened the crate and noticed that the bad thing is reverse striped all over the body (I didn't knew this before). She will also be a member of the club that will go to the vet right tomorrow. Enclosed a photo in order to say farewell to her.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

use my advanced snake breeder's secret technique to assure that they become great breeders.That is a beautiful animal Herman.

It is interesting that you brought up the euthanization of the babies.I can remember a time a few years ago when things were really nasty, when a young kid came onto the forum and was panicked because his Boa had just delivered babies.He was wondering if he should put the offspring in the freezer since they were the product of an accidental Central AmericanX Columbian breeding.After reading that this was a huge no no on this forum,he was seriously contemplating freezing them.This was not your answer to his question,as a matter of fact I don't know if you even replied to your credit,but several "purists" responded that they thought that would be a good idea.The comment was that we didn't need more mutts out there ruining the gene pool.

Things have calmed down a lot since then.When I produced the litter of Argentine crosses a few years ago,I was an infrequent poster but a faithful reader of the forum.Once again,this wasn't you(although you did have some interesting comments,which led to some cordial e-mail exchanges,where I learned that you are a good guy)but I had hateful e-mail from some poster in Germany(don't remember who it was) that told me to stick to one-eyed Socs,that I was a disgrace to the snake community,that the babies should be immediately destroyed,that my father wore women's underwear(no wait that was a different e-mail) and I believe one that said I had B.O.(skip that one,that was my wife that said that an hour or so ago).Of course I gave all of this the serious consideration that it deserved and spun it into an enjoyable two weeks of stories,culminating with the one-eyed Manson Boa contest.

The truth is,a middle ground had been achieved somewhat,if I remember correctly.I remember you saying that morph breeding was OK as long as "true" boas were not used..a fairly dramatic compromise from your original position that everything we had over here was clearly tainted(with the exception of the stock of a very few breeders that you admired)and that morphs were the work of Satan(slight hyperbole).What has happened in the last few weeks to get you so fired up about the morph breeders again?

What has happened in the last few weeks to get you so fired up about the morph breeders again?
He wanted us to have an "About-Hermann-Forum"...

I will be bound at a stake there with a bill around my neck stating

"To spit at three times only 50 Cents".

The profit out of this drive will fund a charity for poor locality specific breeders.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

That was a good one, I will have to memorize it. *LOL*

I would never say that morphs should be put into the freezer, because they are God beings also and have their right to exist when they are born. I only say that one should not cross true locality specific boas with morphs.

I got not fired up about the morph breeders again but I just pointed out at some things that crossed my mind contemplating recent occurences in the morph area.

I still think that they have their place in the boa market but I will not refrain to utter my thoughts as to the disadvantages I see in this animals.

That's all. By the way, I like the humor in your postings.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

.

I am all for morphs and creating the best boas possible. I think it would be terrible to take those animals to the vet because I really like animals like that and would welcome the opportunity to use them in breeding projects. Those are just the kind of aberrant animals I think can add alot to different projects as I have CONSISTENTLY stated here for several years.

Don't try to make me the bad guy here. You are the one who stated you were against aberrant animals not me. I notice in your response you fail to respond to the fundamental question by trying to twist things and implying I would recommend euthanizing the animals. What is far more interesting is that in your attempt to twist things you provide even more insight to yourself by showing that reverse stripe animal. Striping may or may not be genetic but reverse striping often is genetic and for you to have that animal once again is not consistent with what you posted just a few days ago.

Now that you have admitted that you bought albino boas and obtained and kept this great looking reverse stripe animal I think there can be little doubt that you are really a closet morph enthusiast. Come out of the closet Herman so you can enjoy those aberrant animals you already own openly.

Bill Kirby

ill take him off your hands! i think hes beautiful!

I already stopped buying wildcaught animals since I see the point.

Although you forget two things:

The environment where this animals live is destroyed primary by the interests of the almighty industry and commerce.

And the country who has the most responsibility in this all over the world is the U.S.
So write to your politicians first that they should sign the Kyoto - protocol and take other measures for saving the environment before tackling at me.

The second point is that breeding true locality specific boas will also help to decrease the number of imported animals. My 21 Surinam babies this year (so far) helped to avert the import of 21 wildcaught surinams.

I have bought wildcaught animals in the past in order to establish a robust breeding stock. Now I don't need further wildcaught animals and you can believe me that I am very glad for this.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

babies should be returned to the wild and the importers should then be told to collect 42 fewer Surinames than they had intended to collect.

If you remember I did something to that extent a couple of years ago.I released all of my babies into the neighbor's garages and donned an "Official Central Illinois Neighborhood Snake Collectors" badge and outfit(looked like Steve Irwin)and then collected them one by one from the relieved neighbors and only charged them 100 bucks per snake.Not exactly what I am suggesting you do,but somewhat the same.Send me those Surinames and I will try it again and split the 1050 bucks with you.E-mail me and I will send you my address and shipping info.

but 50 bucks each snake is a given...economy is in bad condition over here.

nm
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Why are you wrong??? The 21 Surinam babies you produced will IN FACT, 100%, NOT stop the import of 21 more wild caught boas (typically sub-adults). Quota from South America are issued every year for their export and they ship the entire quota each season (generally). YOU have nothing to do with it, so don't feel you are making a positive change with reducing wild caught animals for import. The ONLY thing you will allow is 21 nice, CBB animals to be purchased by prospective buyers who may have otherwise bought an import. You stand corrected mein freund.

Matt
p.s. - I agree that WC should be imported on a MUCH smaller scale, but realistically, Hermann has nothing to do with it (not coming to his defense, just the facts).
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

I have bought wildcaught animals in the past in order to establish a robust breeding stock

Excuse

Now I don't need further wildcaught animals and you can believe me that I am very glad for this

Lie - Indenial

My 21 Surinam babies this year (so far) helped to avert the import of 21 wildcaught surinams

B.S.

In Europe the most wanted boa is a surinam redtail. The demand is much higher than the supply.
Meanwhile almost everone knows that a wildcaught animal brings hardly joy to the new owner but mostly trouble and sorrow.
So every person with a sound mind will buy a captive born surinam redtail instead of a wildcaught one. IF ENOUGH CAPITIVE BORN ANIMALS ARE AVAILABLE.

If not he/she will either abstain or buy a wildcaught one. And if captive born animals of a certain kind (surinams in this example) are available in a sufficient number the import of live boas from surinam will live to see a decrease.

Unfortunately the import of live animals is minor compared to the import of skin.

Nevertheless, no more wildcaught animals in the future for me.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

otherwise it wouldn't keep appearing time after time. One thing is for sure though, Herman is an intelligent man with some really good points and the experience and passion to back it up but....there really isn't a right or wrong on this issue, just opinions and I kinda like reading the Herman threads, it cracks me up. As long as people keep on breeding the snakes that have already been removed from nature rather than taking new ones I'm happy. Thanks to all those captive breeders out there, you do more for boa conservation than anyone else!

I'v attached an OT pic of a snake I found the other day, anyone know what it is?? (this is a test, I know what it is and sorry its not a boa but it is a nice shot though

Peace

BTW This forum is by far the best on kingsnake, I check up daily.

Nice one too.

It's a good thing Hermann doesn't try to keep "locality" ball pythons, or else we'd REALLY be in trouble!!!

Have a coke & a smile folks - any day keeping snakes is a good one.

KLG

I can't resist.

I am excited about some snakes that I am getting in next week in a trade,and want to share the true story.
This will be hard to believe,but I got this second hand, straight from an extremely unreliable source, that I could be getting some extremely rare Ball Python morphs in a trade next week.
The story goes that the parents of these beauties once belonged to an African Prince,and were stolen by an unscrupulous reptile dealer and were smuggled into the country(supposedly by Jared what's his name,the t.v. guy,in a bunch of Subway Sandwich buns,but I am not sure if it was the real Jared).
Anyway,I have purchased these beauties and will call the four that I would have posted pics of ..if this were the Python Classifieds and if I actually had the snakes,but it isn't and I don't...A-D. Would be D-A if you are reading this in a mirror or somewhat dyslexic,but go with me now.... Close your eyes and picture these babies,and see if you like what you don't really see,but could see if the pics were here and the...heck you know.
Baby A is not Het or Double Het,but is 100% Melatoninistic.Look at this sucker for a while and no need to count sheep or armidillos,this baby will put you to sleep.Not addictive either.
Baby B is proven het for Hypo.Fifty,Fifty folks.She or he,not sexed yet because it isn't here,is half Hypodermic,half Hypopottamus.So what?Huh,how much is the protection of family worth? Let's say you are on a canoe trip with the family,on a Tuesday.. (if you don't work or are laid off),and some loud- mouth roughnecks in a rubber dinghy,are making fun of your wife and kids and calling them butt-ugly or something.Even if it is true,turn this sucker loose and it will turn the dinghy over and drown them,or at the very least poke a hole in the boat and maybe they will drown anyway.Or maybe it won't and they will kick your arsk,however you got a fifty percent chance don't you?
Baby C is cool as well...it is a possible Xzantactic baby.No kidding, 100% possible.'Big freakin deal',you say,or perhaps shout if you have already spent this much time reading this post,but let me tell you what this same liar told me about this snake...You could listen to your wife,or husband, ,occasional pleasure partner,(that part is irrelevant),gripe at you non-stop,and eat a Taco from Manuel's Taco Mart,and hold this snake,and there is no chance of Gastric Reflux,Wake up in the middle of the night with esophogits,(the bad kind where you sort of puke,but catch it in your mouth first)and try and put a price on this snake.Go ahead I dare you.
Last, but not least,and I say this sincerely as a 20 year weekend musician who has played every Beatles song to people,even if they would yell,"Holy Moly,no more Beatles...Freebird",this might be my favorite of the bunch.Take baby D,into a dark room and shine a black light on it and get out a magnifying glass(not during the day in Nevada,cause you will fry the dude),and honestly I could almost swear that I
think I could possibly see some kind of a mark that might be a ring if it was round.Swear to you.It plays the drums and sings poorly,and I swear it is a RingoBall.What are those suckers going for? Market value? Triple easy!
Anyway,I know this is not the classifieds,but if you know anyone who would pay off my mortgage and Master card debt,I will sell these to them.If they are not sold by noon(any day will do),
I will be forced to hold on to them and pout.

Sorry for the rerun.I posted it on the Ball forum and it went over like a lead balloon.One guy responded that I didn't even know the correct name for the animals that I was getting.

Sort of like an e-mail that I got last night after posting a pic of one of those unusual little BCI on the classifieds.A guy e-mailed me and said that it was really pretty,but that the reason it was pretty was because it wasn't BCI but BCC.

i cant go 10 posts without reading more about herman!!! im getting tired of it! if he bothers you...then great..keep it to your damn self leave some room for the real purpose of this forum.