Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

I know there has probably been some of this type of conversation posted in bits and pieces throughout this forum. I just thought that I would ask some of the experienced crocodilian handlers and herpers a few questions that could hopefully help me ultimately in preserving our right to enjoy our interests but also protect our animals. I have been dealing with crocodilians for a few years now. I know perfectly that I have probably not quite the experience as Mr. Moss and Mr. Dieter and a few others, but at the same time I feel that I have enough experience to give an educated opinion.

I donot condone the purchasing of crocodilian species without doing plenty of research about the animal that you intend to keep, as well as having a long term plan for it's housing and overall care. Many people nowadays purchase on impulse. The fact that you can go out and purchase an alligator/caiman/crocodile for extremely low prices at just about 60% of pet stores these days just makes me sick. I feel that only stores that specialize in reptiles should sell them, as well as the owner of the store educate the purchaser prior to allowing the sale of the animal. Many pet store owners these days are just looking to make a quick buck from some poor kid that doesn't know what they are getting themselves into. The same goes for large constricting snakes and hot snakes.

I know alot of what I am saying is stuff that people have heard over and over again. But my question is........When are we no longer going to have to ask these questions? When will people finally come to their senses and start buying what they can accomodate, and sufficiently care for? I am 21 years old. A few years ago, I would have probably been one of the ones with these animals that people in this forum would have badgered because of even considering the purchase of one of these animals. Now I am turning men and women that are 30-40 years old away from purchasing these animals because I donot feel that they could properly care for one. I have heard way too much grown women in the store with their husbands talking about how cute the baby alligators are......and......"Honey, can we get one? We don't have to keep it for long. We can just sell it to someone when it get around 3 feet and too big for us to keep. I find it sad that it is Adults that are making these types of decisions. Quite honestly for a good stretch of time, I have heard 15-17 year olds come into the store and make a better educated decision and told their own parents that it wouldn't be a good pet. It wasn't because the kid was afraid of the animal, it was because the kid was probably considering at an earlier time in his life and did his research like he should have.

I only have one question to ask experienced, LONGER TERM owners of crocodilians. It was mentioned by another pet store owner somewhere in the columbus area, that you can control the size of reptiles, by just not feeding them a whole lot. He particularly zeroed that comment in on larger species of reptiles, particularly crocodilians. Saying only feed them once a week and a reasonable amount of food, and they won't get that big. I feed my alligators 2-3 times a week depending on the size of their meal on the previous feeding. I don't want to over feed. Is this man's statement correct? Does this negatively affect the animals overall health? How do experienced crocodilian keepers feel about that statement. I have gathered alot of information that supports it to a small degree, but just not in the sense that he is putting it.

Most of the data that I have gathered simply states that crocodilian growth rates vary according to environmental conditions, and food availability. But most of the information that I have looked at doesn't say whether limited feeding is healthful or not to the animal. I personally feel that he is using this "theory" as a way to sell more of the animals. I have never met this man in person, but I think I would like to take a look at the condition of his animals. Everyone knows that the more the animals are fed then, the faster they will grow and the bigger they can get. But is limited feeding to slow this process a safe measure? I am just very confused by this remark.

I do apologize for the lengthy post, and I would appreciate anyone who is willing to take the time to read this dreadfully long post and answer any questions that I have. I thank you in advance. If anyone would like to talk about this or anything else related to this topic in private, feel free to email me at
venomousviper04@ netscape.net

Thanks for your time,

chris

Hello,
I'll offer up a few views on your comments below.

you said:

'When are we no longer going to have to ask these questions? When will people finally come to their senses and start buying what they can accomodate, and sufficiently care for?'

Good question. I have no idea why people do some of the things they do. At the same time, personally I am alarmed at the freedoms people so willingly give away in the USA.

' Now I am turning men and women that are 30-40 years old away from purchasing these animals because I donot feel that they could properly care for one.'

>>Age is no indicator of successful keeping. Funds, space, and experience are better indicators.

I only have one question to ask experienced, LONGER TERM owners of crocodilians. It was mentioned by another pet store owner somewhere in the columbus area, that you can control the size of reptiles, by just not feeding them a whole lot. He particularly zeroed that comment in on larger species of reptiles, particularly crocodilians. Saying only feed them once a week and a reasonable amount of food, and they won't get that big.'

>>Well yes and no. With limited nutrition and improper housing(i.e. temperature) you can limit the size of the larger species. This is called stunting and in my view it constitutes animal cruelty.If you own a crocodilian you owe it to the animal to allow it to be all it can be.

Those who advocate stunting are a despicable lot. They should either A. not be selling animals or B. offering species which will attain a small size.

I feed my alligators 2-3 times a week depending on the size of their meal on the previous feeding. I don't want to over feed. Is this man's statement correct?

>> I'd say your doing just fine.
-----
CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

Mr. Dieter,

Thank you for your reply. Please don't feel that I am challenging your post in any way because that is not my intention. I am just simply trying to understand every issue in depth before relaying information to customers. On a more regular basis, I try not to sell crocodilians to normal keepers, unless I know their keeping habits and whether they are truly interested in offering the animal a good life. After-all, I am a personal keeper myself and it wouldnt' be fair of me to knock other keepers doing the same, right or wrong?

Does stunting their growth effect their overall health? Is it dangerous? I donot plan to stunt growth at all, but if this is what this man does and it can negatively effect the health of the animals, he should NOT be ALLOWED to sell the animals. I have sent an email to Dr. Adam Britton asking some questions as well. Although, I know he is a very busy individual and I don't mean to disturb him. I would just like to get as much info as I can about these animals. I feel it is much easier to educate the general public about these animals the more you know.

Thank you again for your response Mr. Dieter.

P.S. Did you get my message, containing questions about your book? I am interested in purchasing it and I was just wondering if their are stores in particular that normally carry your book.
Thank you for your time.

Chris