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We have had an incident the other day here in South Florida where a 6 year old in school broke a picture framwe and cut himself. he would not turn it over to the principal, who called the police. Two officers showed up and assessing the situation, one called headquarters and asked if they should use a Tazer (sp) on the child. She was advised that it was ok by police policy, so she shot the boy with the electric device which sent 50,000 volts thru the child. This incapacitated the boy, so that the police could take the piece of glass from him.

The next day he appeared to be ok.

It brings up a couple of questions...

Why couldn't two adult Police officers (not to mention the school staff) control a 6 year old?

What lasting effects (if any are there from exposing a small child to high voltage shock (even the manufacturer did not test it for that).

On the aftermath of yet another unnecessary police shooting down here, we are left to ask, where do we set limits?

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I don't know where to set the limits in the U.S. but I can tell you what would have happened in Germany in an identical case:

In Germany (and - to the best of my knowledge - most of the other European countries) persons less than 14 years old are by law not competent to stand trial. No matter what they do, they can't be punished by the law.

You know that I am a sceptic as to many things that happen in the U.S. but in my opinion the law here in Germany is too lenient in some areas.

But a measure like this to a 6year old would cause a riot in all medias in Germany and adjacent countries for at least four weeks after the happening and another several weeks during and after the responsible police officers have their trial.

Such an incident would be unthinkable here (I suppose they would shed the skins of the officers *LOL*)

On the other hand we have 10 - 14 years old who are very dangerous and can not be punished. Of course, they can be locked up in an institution for problematic children, but such a measurement is very difficult to achieve and they have to be released soon again.

You would not believe it, but the German government even attempts to rehabilitate such children by spending them a four week vacation (with a psychologist) in Greece and even Central American countries on tax payers expense.

Such experiments mostly failed and several months ago the embassy of such a country even complained because the corresponding child behaved like a raging bull there.

You guys in the U.S. might find this ridiculous and I admit you are right in this matter. But attacking 6years old....

What a crazy world! (Germany included)

It might have been the safest option. Two grown men could seriously injur a 6 year old when trying to subdue him. maybe the tazer was the safest choice.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
0.0.1 ball pythons (FELIX!!!!!)
2.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, Bear, and Tony)

"scientia est vox"

it actually was The Principal, School security and One male and one female officer...vs the six year old.

Guess he had them outnumbered....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Now it is the turn of a 12 year old girl who was caught skipping school.....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Still any adult could cause serious physical harm to a 6 year old child, even when using little force. Most likely they weren't trained in how to subdue a 6 year old safely. I don't know how much damage a tazer does (i imagine quite a lot) but i doubt it could break bones easily like an adult trying to subdue a small child could do. With a tazer though there is less risk of haveing multiple outcomes. With a tazer you can pretty much guess what is going to happen to that person. But even a 6 year old (with a weapon mind you) can do serious damage and will be easily hurt.

But i totally agree a Tazer on a 6 year old, what were they thinking? there has definately got to be a better way than using a tazer or physically subdueing the child.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
0.0.1 ball pythons (FELIX!!!!!)
2.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, Bear, and Tony)

"scientia est vox"

The story I heard on the radio out here, was that the child was threatening to hurt himself further (commit suicide) and that he had already cut himself. The tazer was used to immobilize him without him being able to cut himself further. It's pretty hard to approach someone that is threating to hurt themselves. If he had been threatening them with the glass, instead of himself, that would be another story.-but that is not the case, as far as I am aware.

Kind of like suicide bombers. They are very hard to stop since they have no regard for their own lives.

I guess you wouldn't be criticizing the police today if they had tried to approach him (without using the tazer) and he had been able to seriously injure or fatally injure himself?

Sounds to me like exactly what the tazer was developed for. Stopping someone that is irrational, and a danger to themselves or others, without having to actually shoot them.

Rodney

I agree with rodney 100%....i would have tazed the kid too..

You mean two big brave police officers haven't got the brains to disarm a small child without shooting 50,000 volts into him and this is cool with you?

GIVE ME A BREAK.

The child was scared and suffers from A.D.D. Any body with a brain in their head knows it is extremely difficult to reason with such a child, but it is also not hard to distract them either. They could easily have been calm and offered him a toy or candy and he would have relaxed and been disarmed.

I worked as a bouncer and also ran security for Pier 66 (a major hotel in South Florida. In the course of the three years I spent there I ran into several cases where I had violent or potentially so) people to deal with. I was allways able to talk them down. In one case, durring an actual fight on a elevator. It takes patience and the time to listen, but it can be done.

We are having a problem here with police that shoot first and think later. Recently we have had two instance of cops killing people without cause. In one case they harrassed (verbaly and physically) a man on the street who was doing nothing (he had commited no crime and was not wanted for anything). The man was mentaly disturbed and reacted to the harrassment by taking one of the two officers batton and striking the officer. A third officer came up as he was held and placed two shots in the back of the man's head killing him.

I suppose that is acceptable too.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

yep..

And to answer your other question Rodney...

They interviewed the manufacturer of the Tazar and found that no studies had been done in relation to it's effects on a small child. Therefore the police were using a weapon that they had no idea what kind of damage (temporary or perminent) that it could cause...even death.

I would rather have the police jump the child and maybe he gets cut-I doubt a six year old with A.D.D. would know where to cut to kill himself-and have to go to the hospital for stitches, than take the risk of the shock stopping his heart.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

MIAMI, FL -- Police in Miami Dade County say they did the right thing when the used a Taser to subdue a six year-old at school.

Miami Police say the Taser was necessary to prevent the boy from seriously harming himself with the glass.

It is clear that the police tasered the child to try and prevent injuring him.

It amazes me the scrutiny the police have to go through.

Here they are, doing a job that few of us would be willing to do (considering the risks, pay, etc.) and having to make life and death decisions. When they make a decision that happens to have a bad outcome, we criticize their judgment (even though they are trained to deal with these things and we are not!).

And now here we are, criticizing their judgment, in a case where the best possible outcome occurred.

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As for the child and children not being tested with tasers, so what? The police took a calculated risk to try and save the child. Do you think the same taser being used on a 400lb man or 90 lb. woman was never considered during taser testing or police training? The percentage difference in weight between a 6 year old boy and a 90 lb. woman is considerably less than that between a 400lb. man and a 90 lb. woman, yet the same taser is used on both of them. While the use of a taser on a 6 year old may not be known, the effects of one getting cut up is!

Rodney

Well said......

Ok Rodney...

I have been in the police's shoes. As a bouncer, and in my position as the head of a major hotel's security team I have been up against all kinds of situations where I dealt with people drunk or on drugs, sometimes armed and often violent. I recieved a commendation for arresting thre men who were robbing an art gallery (I was unarmed at the time). In this area I often worked hand in hand with the local police. So please do not lecture me on what a cop has to go thru.

I know that even I could have disarmed the boy without a Tazer. In my judgement, a six year old would lack the knowlegdge to cut himself fataly, he might have gotten another cut in while he was being disarmed, but stitches are a much lower risk than electrocution.

What you miss on this Rodney is two major points...

A 400 pound man and a 90 pound woman are ADULTS. Their bodies are mature and thus the possibility of physical damage is less...not to mention psychological damage.

A six year old child has a much different biology as his body is in a very anabolic state. We still do not know what kind of damage can occur from profound electric shock on a developing body at the cellular level. Plus-like I said, the shock could have stopped his heart (which is much more dangerous than another cut).

As to the mind...The use of Shock Therapy has clearly demonstrated the possible effect psychologically of high voltage exposure. Again, the develping mind of a child is more vulnerable_and this boy has A.D.D.

Comparing the effects on a adult vs child is apples and oranges. I am not anti police as I said above I have worked withthem and have friends who are police. But there was a serious lack of judgement in this episode and that should be addressed.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

A doorman for six years straight, dealing with very upset people who were violent and drunk or high on narcotics(Including PCP) , and I cant even comprehend this one:

TAZER a 6 YEAR OLD CHILD?

WTF?

I PERSONALLY have seen grown adult men die because of being Tazered...grown men that wre healthier and in better shape than myself.

And you TAZER a child of 6 YEARS of age?

There are police in this country that consistently and systematically use their position to victimize the homeless(At the bequest of property owners and ball parks) and that , quite frankly are given a job that they are totally unfit to do.

This is such a case.

Hear in San Diego, we have had a number of Police related shooting and not ONE officer has ever been brought up on charges. Some of the cases involved inflamed the community, and brought people out into the streets to protest...yet not one officer ever was sent to prison for the crimes.

Anyone that thinks that you cant disarm a 6 year old child without the use of a GUN or a TAZER is insufficently trained in restraint techiniques and hand to hand combat.

Would you want YOUR police oficers to not have this knowledge?

I wouldnt

Damn shame

Fred Albury