Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is anyone here familiar with rufous beaked snakes? That's the only name I know them by. I've handled several out at Glades Herp and they are relatively docile but how bad is their bite and would anyone know if venemous permit laws apply to them. Another question, I was bitten by about a 3' Mangrove snake a couple of weeks ago and there a little localized swelling in my left hand and I had some nausea/headache for a few hours. Would this be considered a dry bite or is that the usual reaction for mangrove bites. Thanks for the help.-Cole

Rufus do require a permit in Florida. I have never seen one offer to bite. Normaly (see below) they are not a dangerously venomous species. BGF can give you more exact details.

Sounds to me like you had a pretty good envenomation from the Mangrove. For that strong a reaction off just a three footer, you might want to rethink your venomous protocals. You might be more "sensitive" to venom than you realize.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I wasn't trying to imply the mangrove bite to be very bad, it seemed weak to me from what I had heard. Everything I had heard was "mangrove bites are bad" but it wasnt what I was expecting. When I was 14 I was tagged by a pygmy rattler on my heal, now that was bad. I walked out side barefoot and as I slipped my foot into my loafer I felt the tiniest little prick. Had no medical insurance at the time so the "logical" thing to do according to my parents was to see what happened. I didnt want to see what would happen.

Normaly a bite from a Mangrove (unless it is a large individual) is not worth mentioning. A large one may produce more profound effects. Weigh your symptoms accordingly.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I would assume "morphs"/localities would make no difference. I believe it was labeled as a "white-sided" mangrove or something along those lines. I don't know whether or not that would make any difference, I have heard that occasionally snakes of the same species from different localites deliver different bites.

>>I would assume "morphs"/localities would make no difference. I believe it was labeled as a "white-sided" mangrove or something along those lines. I don't know whether or not that would make any difference, I have heard that occasionally snakes of the same species from different localites deliver different bites.

Hi mate

We've done quite a bit of work on the Boiga venoms. Drop for drop they are very very toxic (par with a death adder). They can deliver 25 milligrams or more of venom which is techinically enough for a lethal dose. However, the venom delivery is radically p a hypodermic needle. Most colubrids don't store their venom in a lumen like Atractaspidids, elapids and viperids do. Rather they secrete it as needed. This means that the total shot is delivered over time. Also, since the fangs are enlarged but not hollow teeth, the delivery is less efficient. So, at the end of the day they don't get huge amounts in. So it a case of an inefficient delivery of a toxic venom rather than a mild venom. Your effects, however, are pretty typical for an average envenomation. Not life threatening in the least but noticeable. Giddiness/dizziness is one symtom as is the headache. If you take anything for the headache, make sure its doesn't have codeine or similar in it. I had a ripper of a headache one day after being chewed on by two 2.3 meter Boiga dendrophila (we were unpacking a order of over a hundred poorly packed snakes). I took some panadeine forte (which has codeine in it) and it cross-reacted with the neurotoxin. I was off my face. Not entirely unpleasent though

Cheers
Bryan
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

>>Is anyone here familiar with rufous beaked snakes? That's the only name I know them by. I've handled several out at Glades Herp and they are relatively docile but how bad is their bite and would anyone know if venemous permit laws apply to them. Another question, I was bitten by about a 3' Mangrove snake a couple of weeks ago and there a little localized swelling in my left hand and I had some nausea/headache for a few hours. Would this be considered a dry bite or is that the usual reaction for mangrove bites. Thanks for the help.-Cole

The venom glands in Rhamphiophis (beaked snakes) is massive, as is typical of the Psammophiidae family venoms. We're currently working on them (as well as on Malpolon). I expect them to be similar to Psammophis venom, which is moderately neurotoxic but seems to hit the blood nicely (always a good target). We have sequenced quite a few toxins out of. Some really weird ones that we have absolutely no idea what their activity is. Should be fun to find out

Cheers
Bryan
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

Thankyou for the very helpful information. I've handled dozens of the rufous beaked snakes at Glades Herp and not one has shown signs of aggression. When people started telling me that I was possibly hypersensitive to venom from my reaction to the mangrove I was beginning to worry. Now, with your advice, it doesn't seem like a big deal. Do you know the scientific name of the rufous beaked snakes?

>>Thankyou for the very helpful information. I've handled dozens of the rufous beaked snakes at Glades Herp and not one has shown signs of aggression. When people started telling me that I was possibly hypersensitive to venom from my reaction to the mangrove I was beginning to worry. Now, with your advice, it doesn't seem like a big deal. Do you know the scientific name of the rufous beaked snakes?

Rhamphiophis oxyrhynchus
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

Thankyou everyone for all the herp.-Cole