Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When the drug has to be injected intra muscular how do you know you're into the muscle. Right now I'm using a SC drug wich is straight forward but it's not getting the job done so the vet is looking at other alternatives and they are all IM. How will I know I'm into muscle or not?
Thanks,
Trevor

It's alot easier than it sounds.......as long as you have an extra set of hands. Just point the syringe at a low angle toward the head, about a 1/3 down the body. Pick a spot just under the scales and insert the needle all the way in. It may take you a few tries, as most snakes will resist. The tip should be just under the skin in the firm part of the muscle on top of the ribs. Once it's in, pull back slightly on the plunger to make sure you aren't in any veins or arteries. You'll know if you get blood in the syringe....and if you do, pick another spot before injection. Be sure to watch the injection site and to move it around from one injection to another. Chondros have thin skin and not a lot of muscle, and most anti-biotics are caustic to tissues. They have been known to leave nasty scars even when the injection site is move from one spot to another. Good luck and let us know how your animal does.

Brandon Osborne

Thanks for the tips. I still have to finish the trimethoprim sulfa before starting some thing IM. I'll post again once I start. I'm also concrened about using Baytril because of the scaring factor. I don't want my GTP all scared up. I do want it alive though so it's one of those lesser of two evils things.
Thanks,
Trevor

Baytril can be given orally if you dont want "blanching" of scales. The only ting is that the reptile has to be in its POTZ, must be warm enough or it will just sit in the stomach and do nothing. Good luck

Has to be in its what? POTZ?
Thanks,
Trevor

Preferred optimal temperature zone. each snake has its own POTZ, that is the best to keep them in, but it becomes especially important when using drugs like baytril. There is a list in Doug Maders "Reptile medicine and surgery".
I will try and look it up, but assume it to be warmer than a "normal" american snake. Alot of infections cannot replicate in warmer temps either, so by raising the temp, you basically decrease the virulence. Good luck. Don

Oh! POTZ. I had never heard that term before. I"m controlling the basking spot with a helix that is set to 95. Also I've never heard or read that increased temps can reduce the effectivness of drugs. Are you sure about that?
Thanks,
Trevor

no, you misunderstood. The baytril given orally will not work if the animal is too cold. Not the other way around. It you have part of the cage at 95, thats perfect. The Mader book i was talking about does not have a POTZ for GTP, but it is probable right where you are at. A trick i use when use injectable baytril orally in reptiles is mixing it with fruit juice. It helps with the pH and the bitter taste. Good luck. Don

I don't know where you got the temp calculations from, but in my opinion, 95 is way too hot for any chondro. Sometimes, extreme heat will also have adverse effects on the healing process.....and to me, that's extreme. Just my opinion.

Brandon Osborne

The temp at the probe is 95 but he is not resting there. I have two perches are different heights in the cage so he can thermoregulate both vetically and horozontally. He is on the heated end of the cage but not on the highest perch. I have the helix set to 95 which makes him about 91-92 where he is perched.
What about that fruit juice idea? I've never known chondros to eat fruit in the wild so why would they care for the taste in captivity? And what about the dies and sugars?
Trevor

The fruit juice masks the flavour of the baytril If you are using a red rubber or a canula to dose it is a non issue. But if you are just trying to get injectinle baytril in a snakes mouth with a syringe, fruit juice helps. Try and get the most natural fruit juice. Sugars never hurt a snake, i have given gatoraid orally to dehydrated snakes. Its the same as pedialyte or a lot of IV fluids in that it has potassium,sodium,chloride and sugar...it helps with electrolye replacement and raises blood glucose levels.

Thanks for clearing that up. I got the baytril last night. I'm going to finish the trimethoprim sulfa first and then I'll try the baytil.
Thanks again,
Trevor

the cool thing about baytril is that in a lot of c&s (culture and sensitiviy) studies that have been done, and that i have seen, if something is not sensitive to enro,it is sensitive to to cypro. Baytril is converted from enrofloxacin to cyprofloxacin in the liver. Interesting.good luck

Interesting stuff. I'll keep you guys posted once I start the treatments.
Cheers,
Trevor