Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am wondering what morph this is? It was purchased at a show. thanks David

s
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
0.0.1 ball pythons (FELIX!!!!!)
2.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, Bear, and Tony)

"scientia est vox"

I don't know. Looks sorta Ghostie. Very pretty. I'm jealous. I want her. =)

Chris
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

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http://www.proexotics.com/FAQ_answers_Is_my_Ball_python_a_morph.html

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Astronomy Picture of the Day

It looks similar, just not as intense, to a ball that Oz owns and calls a bronze blusher........but is unproven.

You have some nice snakes David, but considering you own a pied, pastel, spider, yellowbelly, ?????.......you should know by now that just because a particular nice looking ball does not qualify it to be a morph. There are countless number of awesome balls that never prove out.....and what defies a morph is whether or not the trait is genetic. Remember, morph is just a term we use for a genetic mutation.

Call it what you wish...it's your snake......but for it to be a MORPH...it must prove out.

Well, Some of you have a good point(mur), But a lot of the morphs do prove out. How do you think these were found because they didn't look like a "NORMAL Ball", Just because I have a few nice real morphs doesn't mean I know everything about what is coming in new"morphs", Who would have ever thought the cinnamon pastel was that, cinny's for the most part are very unattractive snakes and then wham someone thought that this snake looks different and then came the 15,000 price tag, Ball pythons have been around for years and years why are all of the morphs just now coming up within the last few years with new ones being discovered every year? Because people are interested and looking harder for morphs and taking big chances. But anyway I call this snake a yellow belly, But I was informed today that it MIGHT be a FIRE BALL due to the blushing. And guess what If and when it proves out, I got it at a show for 30.00. That is just refering to the post from the person above who thinks people cannot find High dollar snakes for a DIRT CHEAP PRICE, If you look hard enough you might just find it. I did.... Thanks These are just my OPINIONS, See ya DAVID

Then why th eheck do you keep asking us? If you want to post a pic of your unproven animal, that's great. But if you're gonna post a picture of a snake that looks 99% normal, then expect to get the respnses you've been getting. I don't understand your motives. You can't honestly tell me that you didn't expect to get the feedback you got, can you?

Jeff, Where do you think this snake looks like a normal? This is the only time I have posted this snake and asked this question. I know what I got, I was just sharing the snakes with all of you on this forum. But think what you wish.

I will post normal snakes for those of you that forgot what a COMMON NORMAL BALL looks like. This is what I consider NORMAL,What the albino is breeding.....

does NOT mean she's a MORPH!

Chris =)
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

Chris, He's not just a little pale. Look again. You gotta look for the different things about ball pythons. It took me several months to know what a YB looked liked, and after searching EVERY ball python I came into contact with I have found what I was looking for, SURE they are NOT proven Yellow Bellies, But either were the big breeders before they proved them out...RIGHT... you don't have to be a big breeder to find something new and special...yea it helps and yea they usually get the most extreme morphs but sometimes I believe the newer morphs like cinnys and yellow belly, lemons, etc do get by. I even found a baby burgandy looking baby last month at a show. It is a female and I will most likely keep it and prove it out, but it was in with around 30 babies and I don't know how anyone could miss it, It may change it may not but for the 40.00 I spent on a female it to me is worth a shot. But anyway Here is a shot of the belly of that NORMAL FROM ABOVE..lol..

I was referring to the photo of the Albino. Get it? Nevermind.

Chris
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

I never even thought you were talking about the albino...but then again it was a male albino.....LOL.....My bad

half the people that respond to posts have leopard geckos and one ball python--many have only seen these morphs by pic or from a show or two--I have not gotten the feed back I wanted from time to time, even though I know what is going on, but time will be on your side--then you can post pics that no one can deny---lots of luck

Doesn't look like any fireballs I've seen.
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Chad Bachman

Go to mike willbanks site....www.constrictors.com....and look at the fire ball on the far left....bottom. I never said it was a FIRE BALL but someone else told me that they thought it was and they know what they are talking about. Thanks DAVID

Seen them Fireballs, and I don't think it looks anything like them. It does look like a YB though, but I have no clue what I'm talking about.
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Chad Bachman

I'm no expert but I thought I had a fireball. I spent alot of time looking at mike's different fireballs at a few shows and the top of your snake looks like it but the belly only looks like pure yellow belly--good luck -- either way you have a hell of a snake--win win situation

Do you know of any online fireball belly pics? I know I saw one briefly with an ad but like a dork didn't save it.

Here is a presumed ch that I recently picked up that has the bright blushing near ghost look, is the belly white enough to be in the running or not?

Here is her back compared to a more normal colored one I hatched. If it was just her light color and fading I might write it off as stress (I think she is 6-7 months old and only 82 grams - over 100 now after I've had her for a week or so) but the combo with the unusual belly has me thinking she is worth breeding.

That snake is probably worth breeding but I don't think it is a YB or Fire Ball, I collected all of the clear belly balls I found hoping to find a YB this season, But when I finally saw mine I knew what it was. But we also don't know what lies in all of the African babies that come in every year. New stuff is found out every year about balls. I would breed that female of yours to something that looks like her with the same clear belly. Thanks She looks to be very nice looking.

Too bad mine's a girl and couldn't make a pair with your similar looking girl. The down side of girls is the extra year or two to breed them.

About what percentage of the animals you looked at would you consider clear bellies? Someone once claimed that as many as half the imports have pattern less bellies but I'm thinking he was defining it way looser than I do (maybe only the big belly scale and not all three across). By the time they get to pet stores in the heartland for me to look through them the clear bellies are maybe only 1 or 2%. I did manage to pick up 3 clear bellied females this year and will be glad if even one of them proves genetically interesting by 2007 or so.

Randy, Depends on what type of clear bellies were talking about. The ones that look like yours and some of the ones I have I would say around 10% or less. I wish I could get 50% clear bellies, when I say clear I mean no black at all in the bellies and borderd by the two black lines. Also my Yellow Belly pictured is a male, I also have a few clear belly males and females, Like I said I collected every baby ball python that was even close to a YELLOW BELLY just hoping that one or two would prove out. But back it the % question, I got 600 baby balls in this year that were NOT picked through, my crates were strait from africa florida then to me without being opened and I probably only got 20 clear bellied snakes if that. But anyway I will talk later. I am working with some clear bellies from 03 so maybe I will prove them out. I will tell you that I have a clear belly adult female that all of her babies were clear bellies. I will have to see what happens with that later since all of the babies were females. But none looked anything special besides the bellies. I even got a few from another clutch that were patterned but had the yellow tinting of a yellow belly really weird. see ya later

but not all of them come with stripes down the sides or checkered. Look for something that has a clear belly but also make sure it has another intresting trait about it. A lot of babies come clear but not all of them have other appearence traits going on.

I could easily see 5% from the wild being het for some sort of appearance mutation. I'm not saying that all clear bellies are het for a stunning co-dominant trait but if "a lot" is along the lines of 20 out of 600 I wouldn't discount the belly as being a possible marker just because you see “too many” of them.

What makes the homozygous recessive animals rare from the wild isn't necessarily a lack of wild hets, it's the odds of two compatible hets getting together. What if 1 in 200 wild animals is het for piebald and they are distributed randomly? The random distribution assumption is a big “if”. I'm not sure how long ago each mutation occurred and how much localized inbreeding takes place. However what at first appears like a high 1 in 200 (i.e. 0.5%) rate for ch het piebalds would only result in 1 in 40,000 (200 X 200) random het X het pairings and 1 in 160,000 (40,000 X 4) homozygous pied ch (or about 1 every year or two).

With so many ch (i.e. wild harvested) babies each year (150,000?) and so many different mutations there should be THOUSANDS of hets for various traits scattered through those shipments. The big problem is how to identify which are hets and for which mutations so you can pair them with something to get results.

yeah... no doubt,
All it takes is one het for albino in the wild to breed and make 50% het babies.Which will do the same when they mature,and so on...
The colorful co-dom's/dom's get picked up(,or picked off)as non-normals now,but what about the hidden recessive gems?

There must be a "mad geneticist" out there somewhere that could find out how old some of these traits actually are...lol

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3.15 Ball Pythons
0.1 Gray cat

"I'm not saying that all clear bellies are het for a stunning co-dominant trait..."

There is no such thing as het for a co-dom, sorry. That is why it is called a co-DOMINANT, that means if the gene is there, it will be visual in some way. Just like there are no "het for pastels" out there. NERD has some excellent genetics articles on their site that explain it all from dominant to co-dominant to simple and even double recessive in easy-to-understand terms and diagrams. My hat off to the writer of these articles who took a very complex subject and wrote it in such a way even a layperson without a degree in genetics can fully grasp it!

Yellow bellys are het for Lucy and Cinnys are het for patternless black,yet both are co-dom traits since there is a visual marker.

He was referring to the clear belly in fact being the possible visual marker in itself.He was just putting it into recessive terminology.Same as when he says "homogenous pastel",meaning super.(I suspect due to all the co-dom/incomplete-dom discussions).

...and dont get me started on them silver pastels...lol
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2.15 Ball Pythons
0.1 Gray six toed cat

Ahh, I must have misunderstood.

Het really isn't a recessive term, it's a genetic term that describes the genotype where there is an unmatched pair of genes, usually in our discussions one normal and one mutant.

A pastel and a spider are every bit as much hets as albino hets. The difference is the mutation type where the hets are visible in co-dominant and dominant mutations and not in recessive mutations.

People have gotten so used to "hets" being normal looking gene carriers from the early recessive morph types that they think the definition includes "normal looking". It does not. Heterozygous just means an unmatched pair of a particular gene as opposed to homozygous where both copies of that gene are the same (homozygous normal or homozygous mutant).

I find it helpful to remember the genotype (heterozygous etc.) regardless of mutation type (co-dominant, dominant, recessive) as the same rules apply to inheritance of genotype across all mutation type (excepting sex linked where there will not always be pairs of genes).

the belly was clear but it is the part between the belly and the sides---if you look at a yellow belly and just imagine the spot running down the snake just above the checkered pattern, thats the area that I thought was just a little different on the fireballs (not that they have a yellow belly pattern just identifying the area of the snake) I found it almost to be a butterscotch type color. I have worked with and handled many morphs but there are two I have trouble identifying---Fire balls and phantoms. I have asked for more pics on this forum and others for these animals but no one will post.

The top pattern on yours resembles it--I found that they had that purple-ish blushing like yours though.

This boy I picked up earlier this year. When it was a baby it had a really ghost hue to it. Combining the purple blushings and the ghost appearence it looked like a fire ball but as it became older the ghost hue muted. Either way the snake is still awesome looking in person I'm still going to breed him next year. He wants to breed right now but I am going to hold off he is still too young

n/p

Just thought I would post a pic of a new normal baby of mine. I thought it was pretty cool.

it migh be a yellowbelly, you have a better belly shot? It seems to be heading to be one, but a better belly shot would be better
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

Here is another belly shot of the Yellow belly NORMAL. It has not been proven but I am hoping to get it to size before the breeding season is over. I have a few more Yellow belly females that will be put with this male and I am hoping they will be compatible with each other. Being that only a few people have proven Yellow belly ball to produce Ivory's I will be keeping my fingers crossed. With that said If it looks True proven yellow Belly it probibly is. But will just have to see. Even if I don't get a chance to prove the YB this year I will still have the other Morphs I am working with. thanks David