Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this sounds like a silly question, but do dart frogs actually swim in water like many other frogs. I've never had one, and I've never seen a picture of a dart frog swimming. The reason I ask is because I was wondering how deep the water portion of my tank would be.

you can have it as deep as you want, just make sure there is easy access out of the water if they fall in

i would never have water any deeper than 1" in with my darts - call me paranoid if you like

better to be safe than sorry...
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1.1.0 D. Retic (bloody hope so at the price!)
1.0.3 D. Galacs (3 females?!)
0.0.1 D. Vents (one to go ? > )
2.2.0 E. Tricolour (4 lots of eggs...)
0.0.49 E. tricolour tads !

England, UK - yay for our crapy justice system...

gjuk@ntlworld.com

I agree with the 1". It depends on the size of the frogs. i have also never seen frogs swim, but they do sit in the water and seem to enjoy it. it is important not to make it too deep b/c i have heard of territorial problems with females if you keep two females togeter, where the one female is try to sit on the other. u can imagine that if the duel goes into the water dish, and it is too deep, the lesser frog will drown. i have never seen this first hand, but have heard of it happening

While darts aren't aquatic, they are all competent swimmers for a short distance. While they don't do it deliberately, they may fall in deep water, and if they do, all they need is an easy egress to shore. They aren't about to drown unless you dump them in the middle of a big lake.

With some darts such as the tincs that may wrestle and try to drown eacn other in a shallow waterway where they can hold each other down, deep water may be safer than shallow, because they would have to separate and swim for shore, having no purchase to hold the other under. They'd both have to save themselves. I think deep water is safer to have with the wrestlers, and the others have no problem with it, as long as there is a way to get out.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I agree with Patty on this. I would would like to add a few things.

First off , there should not be a great deal of fighting in a tank. If there is this means that you have too many of one sex. Females will fight with females and Males with males , in some species. If you see alot of fighting , take one out.

Darts are amphibians and can hold there breath for an extreamly long time. Drowning has come up before in other forums and I have not heard of one single person who has ever watched a drowning. Not hard to beleive. It is always someone who heard of, knows of, or has a friend who knows of, a drown frog. Think about this. About the only way that a Dart drowning could be doccumented would be a study with cameras going around the clock on a tank with fighting frogs. I am guessing that nobody on this board or elsewhere has actualy watched while their frogs killed each other by drowning, especialy since this would take the better half of an hour, at least. If I am wrong I would definatley like to hear the story. There could have been studies on this subject but as of now no-one has come foreward.

I have talked to a number of froggers who have questioned frog deaths. It would seem that many times a frogger finds a dead Dart it is in water. I theorize that this is because of a drive to either re-hydrate, or an internal need to seek out or be in water when there is something wrong with the frog. I beleive this to be true because when talking to people who have found frogs dead in the water they were paired frogs that do not fight. Murder was not an option.

I think that it is imortant to have a water feature. It is a good idea to try to have an keep an easy way of exiting. I do not think that there are many (if any) Dart frog drownings
though.

One last thing about water features. For those breeding "picky" morphs. The water feature can be as deep as you like but for some morphs you will want smaller Brazil nut husks, film cans, broms, something that holds smaller, calm , amounts of water , in addition to the main feature. Frogs tend to not want to deposit their tads into torrential water features. They do not do it in nature and do not like to do it in a viv.

I hope this helps.
Rich

I forgot to mention that some Darts love to swim. They will jump/fly down into a water feature, swim, float, go under to explore, and sometimes stay underwater looking out at you for a very long time. Many love to be in water.

Rich

Rich, as you pointed out, I've never witnessed a fight in which one frog holds the other under, let alone a drowning, have only read about the possibility. Also, if one did witness one frog holding another under, I should think one would interfere before allowing it to happen. I've never heard of anyone who has a video surveillance set up. People considering this possibility may have started what might have become a "wives' tale."

Which darts in particular have you seen deliberately swim? I've seen my imitators jump into their deep pool and hide under the overhang when disturbed, but have never seen any go for a swim or float around as if it were on purpose. On the other hand, I have only three vivariums with pools deep enough for swimming. One is the paludarium with galacs and fish. The galacs have fallen in accidentally when trying to catch drowining fruit flies, but they quickly swim to the egress. Another is the aformentioned small deep pool in one tank with a single pair of imitators. The third is in the P. terribilis tank. I removed the pebbles from the pool recently waiting for a new pump, but they never go into the pool in any event. The others are all pools filled with large smooth pebbles. Those that have this, all certainly enjoy sitting in these with their snouts out.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Patty,
I have seen female Orange P. terribilis dive into the feature in one of our 90gals to swim ,and in her mind, beat the other female to the calling male by swimming the "moat" , taking the more dirrect and less obstructed route.

I have also seen good navigation by tinc and related morphs , but thumbs seem to love the water the most.

I have seen a number of our standard D. lamasi jump down (from hieghts of over 20" into a feature out of startelement. Staying there in the feature for more than 20 minutes.
Same kind of stuff from our Panguana lamasi, castis, quinqs, retics, imitators and intermedius.

The fact that they go to water when startled tends to make me think that when there is a problem , being internal or from external influences, water is a siren song for the troubled.

This does not mean that finding a dart in or around water is a harbinger of doom, they like water when well. I feel that water is a "security blanket". Possibly the more the frog is stressed or in need of something , it goes into internal drive mode.

Speculation and theory on my part as to "drive".

Rich