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Q: Inbreeding of Varanus Acanthurus [urgent]

argon Nov 18, 2004 03:54 AM

Hello.

I'm going to start a breeding group (4 animals) varanus acanthurus.

I was thinking of just buying 4 equally aged but unrelated animals from 4 different breeders.

But now one of those breeders tells me that the result of this will be 4 males !?
He tells me to just buy 4 juveniles of 1 nest.

I'm unsure now... what about inbreeding ?
The breeder told me that inbreeding doesn't occur with varanids !?

Can anyone provide helpful info on this ?

Thank you very very much.
Kris.
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

Replies (13)

kap10cavy Nov 18, 2004 08:14 AM

Well, since monitors are the hillbilly trailertrash rednecks of the lizard world, inbreeding is nesssacary to keep them pure.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

argon Nov 18, 2004 08:45 AM

Do I need to take that response seriously or not ???

My English is not so superb, since I'm Belgian...
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

cdanstan Nov 18, 2004 08:48 AM

n/p

argon Nov 18, 2004 08:52 AM

All this nonsense is not very helpful people...
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

cdanstan Nov 18, 2004 09:07 AM

me and kap10cavy are both from alabama so were probly not the best to answer questions on inbreeding!!!lol

argon Nov 18, 2004 09:14 AM

Now that IS funny

Here is the info I have now:

BREEDER:
You buy a small group of 3 or 4 ackies, their sex depends on the group in which they mature. Inbreeding is not an issue with this species.

OTHER PEOPLE:
You'd be better buying from different breeders, so you have multiple bloodlines.

BREEDER responds to that:
If you buy from different breeders chances are bigger that you get more males.
If you get into trouble with the sex of the animals you bought from me, a trade in the future is no problem.

MYSELF:
Well... I guess I will go with what the breeder says... he should know better than me anyway =-)

But comments are still welcome.
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

amaxim Nov 18, 2004 09:13 AM

Interbreeding between monitors and most reptiles is normal. All the ackies here in the US have pretty much the same ancestry and have been breeding mother-father-sister-brother for many generations. The benefit of having hatchlings raised together is that they are more likely (not definitely) to get along.

That being said, interbreeding is not necessarily a good thing as you lose the gene variables (differing traits) of having two unrelated (or distantly related) monitors. If mom and dad (who are brother and sister) come from parents who both have a trait that makes them more susceptible to disease then children are more likely to have that same trait (on down the line for generations).

But what the dealer told you about getting all males is not true either. I am assuming they are referring to the the observation that some species of monitors tend to sex themselves after hatching in a manner that produces a nice balance of male versus female (ie 4 hatchlings will be 1.3 or 2.2) and some people would assume by that that solitairy animals would likely be male.

I don't believe that to be true (the solo animal being male only). The ratio part of group hatchlings might hold true, but I haven't seen any fact to back that up as being an absolute. From what I have read, with a solo animal you are going to be looking at 50/50 chance of either sex most likely.

Hope I didn't confuse the subject more and good luck.
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-Andrew

argon Nov 18, 2004 09:16 AM

Actually yours is the best reply I got so far

So probably I will go for the 50/50 option.
2 animals from one breeder, 2 from another.

Thank you.
K.
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

argon Nov 18, 2004 09:33 AM

I spoke again with one of the breeders, and he pretty much convinced me, lol...
He told me that if I get in trouble with the sex (too many males), he offers a trade in the future.

So I guess it will work out !?

K.
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

SHvar Nov 18, 2004 09:40 AM

Just like all bearded dragons decended from the same pairs brought from Germany years ago, only every red ackie is decended from FRs original pair from 15 plus years ago. Every ackie we have available will be brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. etc. this is just what we have as a fact of life from all Aussie species available in this country due to Australias laws on wildlife. In fact FR posted pics of the original pair of V. Acanthurus he started with. Think about how variety among bearded dragons has shown up over so many generations and colors, patterns, sizes, etc. , yet all are related. Reptiles live in small geographiphically isolated groups that interbreed all of the time although they most probably try to breed as far from the center of the family tree as possible.
Heres a pic of my little inbred albig cross and her uncle whos 1 yr and 13 days older, she was line bred. Shes the result of a cap banded whitethroat male crossed with a blackthroat female producing the male cross I have, then a female cross was bred with her father producing a BT/WT/WT cross, she displays features of both (so does Shadow), BT size and some pattern, WT color and some BT color. Shadow shows banded WT size and shape with patterns from both and colors mainly from the BT.
Sobek BT/WT/WT cross

Shadow BT/WT cross

argon Nov 18, 2004 09:45 AM

Those are very nice (ahum BIG) monitors

The advantage I seem to have, is that the parents of the juveniles which I can buy are not related.
So if I can get them to breed in a year or two, it wouldn't be all that bad... I think.
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

FR Nov 19, 2004 05:19 PM

First, different breeders does not mean different bloodlines. They are all related, period. They all came from the same founders. There are about three or four original bloodlines, but they are no longer unrelated.

We(in the states) cannot go get new founder adults, as its illegal.

You have two choices, you can cross different kinds and make crosses, or you can inbreed, take your choice. Good luck, FR

argon Nov 20, 2004 01:09 AM

Hey.
Thanks for yout reply.

I can agree that somewhere they must all have the same ancestors
But there's a lot of descending bloodlines available in Europe (Germany and Netherlands).

They keep being related of course, but they would be a little less related than juveniles from 1 nest.

Anyway, I decided to go with what the breeder told me, I ordered 4 juveniles of 1 or 2 nests that he has now.
I can pick them up next weekend, hoi hoi hoi

K.
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1.0.0 ? Ctenosaura Quinquecarinata ? (Clubtail iguana)
2.1.0 Pogona Vitticeps (Bearded dragon)

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