Reptile & Amphibian Forums

venomousviper04,

Most of the places that I look into say that crocodilians make bad pets and that noone should own them. I like them alot. But if they are so bad as pets why do pepole still continue to own them? I am told that nobody can give them proper care and only people that use them for educational and recrational purposes should keep em. I don't no what to think about it. Some pepole think that they are ok to keep as pets. I know this one guy that owns 3 alligators and he says he loves them to deathe. I want one. My mom told me that if I get good grades this year, that I might be able to get a caman because they stay smaller. I figure that since I am in 8th grade I will have plenty of time to spend with it and stuff and grow with it like pepole do a dog. From what you rote before it seems like you know what you ar dong. any idea I would apprecate.

herperkid,

I am not trying to burst your bubble or anything of the sort. But as seeing that you are interested in getting a crocodilian of ANY TYPE, I feel that I must let you know that I personally feel that it is not a good idea. I am sure that many others in this forum will agree. I understand that you have a liking for them. That is great. Use that as drive for learning about them in the future. You don't necessarily have to have one in your house in order for you to learn about them either.
Crocodilians, if you had read through more of the threads in this forum, are not good beginning pets. I will be honest with you on one thing. My first reptile was an alligator. At that time, I did enough homework to know what they ate and what kind of temperatures they needed and the basis of their care. After going to the petstore and with a little persuasive talk from the pet store owner, I WAS SOLD! I didn't realize just what I had gotten myself into.
Fortunately, as soon as I realized where my mistake was I started learning. I read info online, books, and talked to other people that owned them, which was at that time, few and far between. Right now you are in 8th grade if I remember correctly, You have plenty of time. If you are truly interested in these animals. If you truly have a passion for them, you won't lose it. Just keep reading up on them. If you happen to know anyone in your area that owns one, or people that raise them, see if you can get somewhat of an internship with them so you have an opportunity to learn.
Like I said, I don't feel that you getting a caiman at this current time, no matter how good your grades are, would be a very good idea. Adam Britton with the help of a few other people have formed a website that you can look at on the captive care of crocodilians. Here is the link:
http://www.crocodilian.com/crocfaq
Also you might want to consider picking up Chris Dieter's book, "The ultimate guide to crocodilians in captivity". I donot have it yet but will be purchasing it from Chris soon. It might be rather hard to find, but if you look hard enough for it, you will get it. After a few years, look back into. I would recommend waiting until you are out of high school. Atleast by then, if you have done your homework, you will atleast have enough knowledge. On the other hand, there is no substitute for experience. That is the next thing that is hardest to get. That is why I recommended finding someone that you can internship with. One the flip-side you might be able to work your way up with different lizards. Monitors, iguanas, and what not are better to start with than a crocodilian. At the same time, as with anything, you need to do your homework. Even some of those animals' are not for everyone. Good luck.

Chris

Chris,

You siad that an alligator was your first reptile. Couldn't I do the same thing that you did. and learn from that and still be able to make it work. I want to be likt adam briton. he is really good at what he does. I looked at the website tha tyou told me to. i think it helped alot. that website showed how to handled the camen. I could learn like you did. I could grow with it. and learn froom it at the same time.

Danny

Danny,

Somehow I knew that telling you that would come back and bite me on the rump. I won't lie and say that it is impossible to be done. But......you have to consider your current ability to provide for the animal. You cannot just sit the animal in a tank and throw it some food whenever you feel like it and not do anything with it until you get your own house. It's not fair to you, your parents, and most of all it isn't fair to the animal. Like I told you, I feel that I somewhat made a mistake in getting an alligator as my first reptile. I wasn't financially stable, or have the experience, or the knowledge at that time to responsibly care for my gator. The most important part of it all it making sure that you can properly care for the animal. Its bad enough that an animal of that nature is within the control of a human being. But if it is being treated unfairly, it's not going to do that well within your care. It is better to wait until you can offer more to the animal before trying to own it. You want to make sure that you know what you are doing. If you don't have the right experience, or knowledge, or both for that matter, you could end up hurt. Just please take my advice. You can ask others advice in here as well. If Adam Britton is your role model at this current moment, ask him about it. He posts in this website on occasion. See if you can get an opinion from him. Maybe ask some others in this forum. Don't just take my word for it. I hope you make the right decision. I think it's great that you have a passion for crocodilians. But you can achieve that at a later date. Start out with another type of lizard like a savannah monitor. They are not really aggressive as long as you handle it regularly. They do get a little big. You will need a large enclosure for it as an adult. But it will help. But overall there is no substitute for the real deal. Once you do get that caiman, I am sure you will find that out. Good Luck.

Chris

I dont keep any crocodilians myself, and was onyl browsing this out of curiousity, but i do think theres something REALLY important to be thought about here.

alot of reptiles like 1/3 to 1/4 of a humans life. even some of the ones yoou listed as starter reptiles, like iguanas (my primary exp.) live 20 years. Any large long-lived reptile is NOT good for someone still living with their parents. infact, i dont reccomend anyone considering anything that gets over a foot STV until they live in their own home.

its pretty simple... big animals involve bigger space. lizards (i dont think crocodilians count as lizards, but for this generalization, i think they fit into it) tend to need space a MINIMUM of twice their length wide, at least one deep, and depending on in they live in water, ground, or trees, up too 4 times their height. normally, for anything over a foot, this involves what is currently your bedroom as an 8th grader. I made the mistake of getting iguanas while i lived with my parents. I no longer have any of them, and it is directly related to the fact i was not in a stable living place. until you are someplace where you can alter the house to make a forever enviroment for your pet, keepings that do not fit in tanks is just not wise!

and what about when you go to college? its really limiting to have something so hard to care for, you cant take it with you, and its hard to give it proper care. Normally thats when big reptiles get dumped on someone who wanted it bc "OMG THATS SOOOO COOL" and feeds it a highly improper diet, bad enclosure, improper lighting and heating, etc etc, or it gets pawned on mom and dad who had no intention of caring for such a pet.

this isnt fair to you, your pet, or the any number of people from shelters to parents who may get stuck with it at any point. If you're so dedicated to wanting one of these animals, find a place that has them, a shelter, a rescue, someone down the street who happens to have one, and take advantage of a learning experience!

Honestly, do your parents even know what they are getting into agreeing to it? The space in their house it will take up, the fact that in about a year or two (im guessing) they will probably need to make some sort of a pond for this creature? The fact it could easily turn into a dog sized aggresive unhandleable creature?

it may seem obvious, but i know despite how obvious it was when i showed MY parents the giant green lziard i was about to buy, THEY didnt understand the fact they were about to sacrifice a room to him.

and you know its really likely that at some point, being so younge, you will ahve to move on and you will be forced to give up your reptile. This isnt just bad for the reptile, being forced to loose the sweet scaley you loved so much is like loosing a family member, and odds are you wont ever see him again.
-----
1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn
1.0 Ball python
0.0.1 Red tailed Boa
0.0.2 Red Eared Sliders
0.0.1 Softshell
0.0.4 insane tarantellas
2.1 ferrets (Otis, Milo, Monty)
1.0 Cat (Kitten)
0.0.1 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Melleri Cham (Sir Arthur Chamleon Doyle)
And an ever-changing fishie tank...

deviledapple,

For 98% of your post, I agree all the way. The only place that I differ in opinion is about the large long lived reptiles. In the end, I feel that decision should lie in the hands of the person interested in owning the animal and the parents. If the parents are wanting to allow their child to own a reptile, that is perfectly fine as long as they are willing to primarily make sure that the animal is treated fairly and complete responsibility is taken. College at first was a concern to me and my gators. But luckily, I wanted to go to DeVry. I only live 5 minutes from deVry. As you and many others in this forum have stated before, many things must be considered before purchasing an animal like this. He is in 8th grade and wants a caiman!!! I am not particularly a big iguana fan. They as well can cause injury. Yes they do require alot of room. But that part of the decision should be left up to the kid and his parents to decide if they would be willing to go to those lengths. But the same will be required for the caiman. The only difference is, that an iguana bite might break your finger and leave you scarred up pretty well. A caiman bite could possibly remove his hand. I personally don't feel that the room taken for the animal should be the primary concern. I feel that in the decision of whether he was to buy it or not, that it should be included. If you are not willing to sacrifice the room, money, and time, then the animal shouldn't be purchased. If you are willing then fine. The major concern that I have for this kid, is that I don't think that he knows what he is getting into with a caiman. I am more focused on his and the caiman's safety. Compared to safety, the room taken should be a secondary issue. This is just my opinion. If someone feels differently and would like to share their opinion, I would gladly appreciate it. But for the most part, I agree.

Chris

Yeah, his safety is also an important issue, just not one i ever thought of much... mainly because like i said, i dont keep crocodilians, and ive never heard of an iggy even managing to break a few fingers, jsut some skin, lol.

The space issue is just "for the animals safety" since one of the number one problems that causes people to dump animals is "it just got too big, no space"

And you really have no idea how much the kids parents actually know... honestly, for my first iguana, i told mine it stayed that size. His might not even know what a caiman is, might just think its some cute little skink of some sort.
-----
1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn
1.0 Ball python
0.0.1 Red tailed Boa
0.0.2 Red Eared Sliders
0.0.1 Softshell
0.0.4 insane tarantellas
2.1 ferrets (Otis, Milo, Monty)
1.0 Cat (Kitten)
0.0.1 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Melleri Cham (Sir Arthur Chamleon Doyle)
And an ever-changing fishie tank...

I do agree with you on that. My normal rule of thumb is to know the facts about the animal before purchasing it. Know what kind of enclosure it will have to be in as an adult animal. Make your decision as to whether you are willing to go to that extent of housing the animal and the overall care of it. I had a friend that had a 4 foot iguana. He normally allowed it to take full run of the house. One day he tried to put it back in it's enclosure. It didn't want to go. As a result he had to have reconstructive surgeory done on his thumb. If this kid has one of those, although I still typically don't recommend iguanas to beginners, but I would much rather see him with that as apposed to a caiman.

Chris

Haha, i reccomend bearded dragons to beginers. Iggy's - for general lizards - are esp bad for kids since their food needs daily preperation and needs to be purchased every couple of days...
but beardeds...
tame, sweet, lovable, "big" end of the smaller lizards, easy to care for....
not many lizards are easy *and* interactive... they are more the sort you would "bond with like a puppy" too.
This thread has been quite helpfull for me though, i've been lurking here for reasons to tell my fiance why he CANNOT get a baby alligator. The space issue doesnt work here, hehe.
-----
1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
1.0 Ball python
0.0.1 Boa Constrictor (Achilles)
0.0.2 Red Eared Sliders
0.0.4 insane tarantellas
2.1 ferrets (Otis, Milo, Monty)
1.0 Cat (Kitten)
0.0.1 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Melleri Cham (Sir Arthur Chamleon Doyle)
0.0.1 Chinese Water Dragon
And an ever-changing fishie tank...

ha ha,

I also technically recommend bearded dragons to beginners. But obviously my point was missed, I would much rather see him with an iguana compared to a caiman. Would I prefer he would start smaller than an iguana? Certainly. But if his heart is set on a caiman, I really don't see why he couldn't start with an "iggy". They are challenging to own, and time consuming, they require alot of space, and they cannot BORROW your limbs to never return them. I guess its all dependent upon the kid and what he is really looking into. Would I technically recommend starting smaller than an "iggy"? Definitely. But obviously he's not wanting "gecky's" and "beardies". He's wanting something with a challenge. So I simply provided one, less dangerous than his original idea. I'ts all a matter of preference.

Chris

most of hte problem i really see isnt related to the fact the animal can take a limb, really, a kid is quicker than an adult probably can aviod snapping jaws faster. Most of the problems i see are more related to space, and amount of time that goes into the care, just seems for kids living with their parents, larger reptiles are just a big no-no.
The ability to gaurd ones self against injury from an animal can be developed at any age, infact, its probably easier to develope this sense AS a kid, since its pretty well proven that the younger you are, the faster you learn.
He said a couple of times wanting to bond with it like a dog... that totally screams beardie, or even perhaps a ball python or boa constrictor. You dont really "bond" with the latter two, but they sure learn to recognise you and such, and it can SEEM like the same relationship as a dog. Of course, Iguanas do this too of course, but i really dont advocate people w/o their own home getting an iguana.
-----
1.3 Dogs (max, tasha, kaya, screw)
1.0 Ghost Corn (Ghost Faced Killa)
1.0 Ball python
0.0.1 Boa Constrictor (Achilles)
0.0.2 Red Eared Sliders
0.0.4 insane tarantellas
2.1 ferrets (Otis, Milo, Monty)
1.0 Cat (Kitten)
0.0.1 Emperor Scorpion
0.0.1 Melleri Cham (Sir Arthur Chamleon Doyle)
0.0.1 Chinese Water Dragon
And an ever-changing fishie tank...

Deviledapple,

Once again, I agree with you in a sense. Larger animals are generally not a good idea for kids at home. But once again.....that is not OUR call to make. That decision lies with the kid and his parents. If his parents are willing to donate a whole bedroom/basement/garage/living room/etc/etc., then where is the big deal? The parents that allow the ownership of the animal should also be willing to take upon the responsibility of managing the animal. Parents and kids should think about the future as far as college, military, moving out of state,etc. The overall care of the animal should be taken into consideration (what does it eat?, would I be willing to feed it that particular item?, what kind of housing will it need as an adult?, What is this particular animal's tolerance of being handled?, will I be willing to clean up after the animal?,.....you know, just common sense questions. These should all be thought of before even considering the ownership of that particular animal. What most people don't manage to think about is......Åm I ready to take upon the challenge of owning this animal? What kind of experience do I have to make myself capable of handling this animal properly? If I make a mistake, how forgiving is this species of animal? HOW GOOD IS MY INSURANCE?

Common care of the animal, is a no brainer, common sense answer that anybody should know the answers to. Experience is something that not everyone realizes in necessary. In which case they make a decision to own the animal and before they know it they are in the hospital with three fingers missing.

Bearded Dragons, Geckos, Ball Pythons, skinks, turtles, etc. are generally great first reptiles. But if you are jumping straight into something dangerous without atleast owning something else that provides some challenge, you have a good chance of getting in a little over your head.

Sorry for the long post

Chris

i belive chris is giving very sound advise caimen can be very dangerous . but his parents should be asking some of these questions.i read you every day .you make good arguments.thanks archie

Hi Archie,

Thanks for the support. I just don't think that everyone weighs all of their options before making decisions or making certain statements. I am not saying that the kid would be a bad owner. He may turn out to be the next Adam Britton, Steve Irwin, etc. for all we know. But as his first reptile???? I was not trying to shoot him down, but I think that he needs to just wait it out atleast until he get's out of high school to see what is going to happen after graduation. He could possibly be more responsible than anyone in this forum. Although by his posts, and not wanting to accept what info is givin to him, I seriously doubt it. Crocodilians are not toys. I was somewhat critisized for mentioning "stepping stones". Why jump behind the wheel of a race car if you have never been behind the wheel of a chevy corsica? Like I had mentioned before, space used for the animal should definitely be a consideration, but overall would be one of the smaller worries. Hes in eighth grade now. By the time he graduates from high school, Danny might be nicknamed "nubby". I am only looking out for the safety of the kid. I don't think that iguana's and such are great first reptiles either, but I would much rather see him with one of those as compared to a caiman. Overall it will be up to him and his parents to make the right decision. I was just wanting to aim him in the right decision.

Well, on a lighter side of things, Archie, when are you gonna posts some more pics of that croc? He's gorgeous.

that was supposed to be direction-not decision.