Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok so i have a 55 gallon tank. should be more than big enough. im running a repti-sun 5.0 and a 100 watt basking bulb. what substrate do you recommend and what kinda rock should i adorn the tank with. does water need to be provided in a dish? whats the feeding schedule like? crickets and mealworms evey day?

i am thinking of buying 3 baby dragons. can i house them in the same 55g tank or should i buy just one or a male and female?
thanks

I would stick with newspaper, paper towels, or shelf liner if you're buying babies. Babies need fed 3 times a day and will mainly eat crickets but you should offer greens also. Avoid mealworms, they're not really good for them and can lead to impaction. I would get 1 per tank, yes you can house them together as babies but they'll need separated eventually anyway so why not just start there.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

thanks for the info ill probably just go with 1 for now but eventually i would like to add a mate to stiumlate breeding. i have a 120w infrared heat lamp would that be ok to use to reach the temp to a cozy 110*? where do i buy the red sand i see a lot of people talking about? or the red rock?

I don't think you'll need anything as high as a 120W IR light, I use 60W spot lights and they work for me. You'll have to play around with the lights to find what works for you and your cage, it's different in each one. Remember you're measuring surface temps not air temps, there's a big difference. As far as that red sand, I wouldn't do it. The stuff is total crap and even if it doesn't manage to impact and kill your beardie it'll still dye it red.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

i believe its called red sandstone rock and sand. something like that. anyways my tank is kind of deep. meaning from the top of the tank to the bottom is about 20". right now im using a 100w heat bulb. i know to feed them crickets not much bigger than the size of his head and i also plan on supplying endive and other veggies for him to eat. how many crickets would you feed a baby in one sitting?

In a 55gallon i would only go with one beardie, if you want to add a mate i would upgrade to at least a 75, but a 125 would be better.

Feed your baby as much as he will eat at a time, and trust me, this will be a lot. My babies used to polish of dozens and dozens of crix a day! Not to mention veggies and the occasional worm.

I agree with Sean, sand is never a good idea for baby beardies, and many people dont even keep their adults on it. It can cause impaction and is tough to clean. It also makes the tanks REALLY heavy. As babies, i would use paper towels or newspaper, not very attractive, but it may save ur babies life, and its MUCH easier to clean.

Once your baby is over 6 months, usually, you can put them on sand if you want to. the best sand to use is very fine grain, washed playsand, its cheap and available at any "home depot" type store.

Never never never use calci-sand, vita-sand, or any other sand claiming to be digestable

For decorations, you want a couple of good sturdy basking spots. I use driftwood in my tanks but you can use large rocks if you want to. Aquarium decoration rocks work well, but they are pretty expensive. If you bring something inside that you found on your own, make sure to sterilize it througholy.

good luck
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1.0 green iguana-Deitrich
1.1 Common Boa-Un-Named, Ursula
1.0 Ball Python-Anabell (go figure!)
1.0 Red Tegu-Uteg
1.0 Albino Cal King-Pig
0.1 Mexican Black King-Morticia
1.1 Bearded Dragons-Unnamed, Hanabil
1.0 Albino San Diego Gopher-Unnamed
0.1 Hermans tort-Esio
1.1 JCP-Milton, Medusa
1.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn-Unnamed
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0.1 Motley Okeetee-Unnamed
1.0 Western Hoggie-Wyrm
0.0.1 Rose Hair Taruntla-Unnamed
2.0 Leopard Geckos-Reptar, Pogo
4.1 cats-Tucker,Poe,Abhib,Emerald, Felicity
0.1 Bullmastiff-Asha

sounds good ill use papertowels for the time being then. i was also thinking of this corner bowl they sell that supposedly can contain the crickets inside so theyre not running around wild. is this a good idea or will they jump out anyways? il probably go with some cheap driftwood or rocks that i could find. do they like hiding spots? are they allowed to feed on pinky mice?

Some people like to use hide boxes and the beardies will usually use one if you offer it. Pinkies are a no no.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

hmm ive heard differing opinions when it comes to feeding pinkies every once and a while. good source of opinion.

I answered this just yesterday on here also. But here it is again, I'm going to copy and paste lol, save some time.

"I used to give them to my females after clutches also. Since then there has been a lot of discussion and findings that make it a questionable practice. They are very high in fat and yes they will pop the weight back onto a female after she lays very quickly. They do have a risk of parasites (f/t will solve that though) and impaction though. Plus raw fat, even to add weight really isn't that good. It's better to give a well balanced diet and extra calcium to get the weight back on. In an emergency I'd probably still resort to one if her weight was at a critical level but I haven't run into that. What I've done to help this is I don't breed my females if they are under 350 grams and I prefer 400-500 for a minimum, they take the stress of being gravid better and even after multiple clutches don't wear down too bad. I also increase their bug count through the whole process. I will say that I never personally had any problems with pinkies but there are people that have and I'd hate to lose one of my girls when it could easily be avoided. "

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

i hear ya. for a juvenile what would you recommend as substrate then? paper towel which in my opinion looks terrible. or those rabbit pellets. really im going to go with something simple. a food dish, water bowl or log, and a brick with the substrae all around. possibly il get a nice little hiding place.

Paper towels are good. I've been using shelfliner in my cages, it's easy to clean and comes in a lot of different colors and patterns. I don't like rabbit pellet or wheat bran because you can't get them wet at all or they'll mold, plus they harbor bacteria. I keep my cages real simple. I have far too many to have to worry about a bunch of decorations and that kind of stuff. Simple cages are easier and quicker to clean. But that's me, you probably won't have as many cages to worry about every day lol.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

yea thats what im talking about im looking into getting one male in a 55g tank. that is all. i would like to make it as decorative as possible but i understand this is a simple animal.

They really like things to climb around on. If you're kind of handy do a search on fake rock walls, I always thought they looked great, I plan on doing a couple of "display tanks" for the living room with them this winter. I've also heard from people that they like those hamocks that go in the corner. Whatever you go with just make sure that it's pretty easy to get feces off of and that it's stable and can't fall and crush the little guy. Check the photo gallery on here and you'll see plenty of cage examples. As long as husbandry is right in them, you can go nuts with the decorations as long as you're willing to clean them.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

I would recomend a hammock from www.theclassylizard.com I think it is? If you put it under the basking light they will love it. Black ones hold a better temp for their tummys' too. Helps digestion.

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Speaking from experience..... the rabbit peelot crap is asking for trouble.... it molds very easy and the beardies like to eat it...... Terrible stuff... sand or shelfliner is the best bet..... duck brand shelf liner rocks...... sand swhould be sifted and washed...... anything else is really a waste of time and money.

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Who was it that lost a female to pinkie mice and was that a vets diagnosis? That the pinkies caused the impaction resulting in death? It seems that alot of people end up "parroting" what they hear as a fact which they have never even really experienced. Just my thoughts on all that.

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Couldn't agree more Robert. I think it is important for people to indicate what their experience has been (first hand) as opposed to what they have heard/read. I feel there is a tremendous amount of "information" being passed on (not just in this forum) that is simply something going from one person's mouth (fingers) to the next with the actual origin of the info./person who experienced it being 100 people ago.

Ian

Home Depots sand is very dusty and silica dust is a known carcenogen. It also must be SIFTED. The biggest reason sand causes impaction is people not sifting the sand and/or feeding pinheads that are so small the dragons are ingesting alot of the sand as they chase and eat the crix. I still say AS I'VE ALWAYS SAID...... There are people who use sand from birth and have no problems..... However, for a beginning keeper, I would say that shelfliner is a much better choice of substrate as they may not see the symptoms of impaction (if it even happened) as a 10 year veteran breeder would..............

Now then..... Isn't that a much more politically correct statement? Is everyone still happy? yes.... there there.....
let the beardie liberal fill in the cracks...... ROFL......

Can you here me now? SHould I turn it up for you? hehe..........
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Lol, beardie liberal, I like it ROFL. I'm just not in a very politically correct mood today and looking back on my posts they've kind of reflected that. Oh well, as long as I didn't piss anybody off too bad lol.

Sean

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Heart Mountain Herps

hehe..... well I'd hate for someone to get mad aty me and not want to sell me a dragon I was interested in...... all because I wasn't politically correct in the public forum...... even though I'm fairly positive I always have been.........

I'm gonna be another rapper dead for poppin off at the mouth with stuff I shouldna said... EMINEM......

Guess I should have taken my medicine the past couple days..... I just keep forgetting..... Damn my feable human mind.
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

excellent info guys thanks! i got one question and excuse my ignorance but what the heck is 'duck brand shelf liner'?

It's the specific brand "Duck" that most of us use. You can find it at walmart over by the dish drainers and that stuff. There are 2 kinds, with holes and without, you want the one without.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

There are also two types of the type without holes.... There is a thicker one in the four foot roles and a thinner one in the 6 foot roles..... You want the one that is 6 foot. It is more of a vinyl top than the 4 foot role and the 4 foot role is also poorus and will stain easier and absorbs the liquid much like sand but its worse cause you can't scoop it out.

if you use sand get a plastic spoon and "scoop out" the sand around the poopy....

Later,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

thanks guys. you think a brick would be a good basking spot? or maybe a few bricks piled together?

im gonna check out this shelf liner stuff until the beardie gets a little bigger then ill go to that play sand at home depot.

searched for 'fake rock walls' and couldnt find anything

I don't have the links on this computer. I'll check tomorrow when I'm at work I'm pretty sure I've got them on there and I'll send them to ya.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

May be a silly question but why are you saying the Vita-Sand stuff is a NO, NO?

thanks sean. get back to me with that info when you get a chance.

Here you go

http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections index-req-viewarticle-artid-34.html

http://www.morion.com/teo/english/rockwall-cage/frame-cage.html

http://708designs.netfirms.com/customcage/customcage.htm

Try those and you'll get the general idea.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

thanks man for ALL the info!

so it would be safe to use playground sand from home depot on an 3-4 month old beardie? sifted of course so its fine grain.

Usually when a thread is this long there is a fight going on. I was pleasantly surprised to see a thread with nothing but help and advice..
Very nice to see...
(what are cockles? lol)
Christy~
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www.classylizard.com

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Signature file edited. [phw 9/2/04]

>>what are cockles? lol)

They are mollusks, i.e. like a clam or mussel.
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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

Warming the muscles of my heart makes more sence then the warming the clams of my heart
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www.classylizard.com

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Signature file edited. [phw 9/2/04]

Or maybe the castles of my heart? Similar to cockles so it still has flair..... yet an air of mystery as well. LOL....

Good to see you two!!!

Robert Wood
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

A couple things I didn't see mentioned about the basics. You have a Reptisun UV bulb so just wanna double check if you know it needs to be within 12" to do any good? I used one for my tegu when he was young and tried to keep it more like 6" close. You could either dangle the fixture from the tanks's top, or raise the basking spot closer to the the top (if your 55 is like mine, its pretty tall). Like it was said earlier, everyone's tank has to be different depending on where you are and how it is set up. So you'll have to find the right distance between the basking spot and the light where the heat and UV are both acceptible. Maybe a lower wattage bulb and a vertically high basking spot? Tons of options. I personally switched to mercury vapor bulbs, they have heat, more UV, and they aren't limited as much by distance.

Another thing I have heard, I think on this forum and maybe a care sheet or two, is that it can be a bad idea to have a hide spot for beardies. Of course they are all individuals with their own personalities. If yours is a little skittish or afraid in his new home, he may want to hide all the time. This could affect basking and feeding, causing big problems down the road. Again, I only read this somewhere. Personally, I do have places in my setup where my 5 month old COULD hide, but he never has. He is always out in the open checking things out. Just something to maybe watch out for in the first week or two. Maybe the more experienced people could pitch in what to do IF the baby hid all the time. I don't know what would be better, allowing him to hide and feel secure or to remove the hide and possibly stress him out? I hope there is a reply to that question, because I would like to know myself!

You may have read all this in a care sheet, and if so thats great and maybe this will help the next reader.
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-Bill

1.0.0 Albino California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Colombian Red Tail Boa
1.0.0 Jackson's Chameleon
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu

redatoryLizard@Yahoo.com">PredatoryLizard@Yahoo.com

I have two diff. 55 gallon tanks, each set-up for my BD's

Each tank has playsand from homedepot ($5 for 50 lbs of the stuff )
And i just go into the fish dept. of petco and petsmart to get my basking areas.

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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Nunca & Nexus
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

here's sum more pix-

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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Nunca & Nexus
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

more...

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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Nunca & Nexus
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Nunca & Nexus
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

YES they do!!! The great thing about the hammocks is that you can adjust them up or down to get basking temps right. awesome cage item!
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

As for hiding spots... my BD's rarely use them, but when they do, they sure do love them...

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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Nunca & Nexus
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

Those are great setups! The only thi9ng I can see wrong with them is that you should really get anothwer shop light for the other cage. Light intensity will effect appetite and make your beardie lethargic if it's not bright enough. I say this not to be critical, only to add something you may have overlooked or not been informed on before. It really is better to have one over each cage.

Later,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

LOL, i knew sumone would bring this up... Since the pic's been taken, i've gotten another shoplight for the other tank, and both are equiped with ReptiSun 5.0 bulbs. And until i did that, i had a UV coil bulb in the left dome lamp of the left cage.

But i'm glad you had the honesty to bring this up, if i had been a neglectful owner, you could've saved a BD from MBD.

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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Quebert & Isis
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

Actually I was more worried about light intensity. Not UVB.... Light intensity is very important as well. I also have to say that I know people who don't use UVB and have no problems. Light intensity is valuable and necassary for many behavioral reasons however.

Later,

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

ive got another flourescent light in each fixture aswell, and i leave my blinds open in my windows during the day, so i'd have to say the light intensity is the most it can be.
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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Quebert & Isis
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]

Yeah. When you said that you got another fixture, that's really all you need but the window does help. Just didn't know if you knew about light intensity or not. Haven't really seen it mentioned for awhile here.

Later,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

It's all good
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1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
Quebert & Isis
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/24/04]