Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Asking for input here. In your opinion (and direct experience) what are the best herp pets for the NOVICE, not experienced keeper? Are there species out there that are not "popular" but in fact make very good pet animals? Are there popular pets that really don't make good pets (Like the big boids?)

I'm curious about all herps: frogs, toads, lizards, salamanders, turtles, and snakes.

Turtles and snakes are the easiest as a group. By that-the popular "painted turtle" is allways a good beginner. Some of the "land" tortises are also great. Thses have lighting and dietary needs that must be addressed.

Snakes are even easier. I recomend the basics. Any of the Florida Kings are as tough as it gets and very handleable. The American obsoleta group-Black-yellow-glades...etc. The Corn snakes.

A very easy species to keep and breed is the African Brown House Snake.

If you don't want a mouse eater, go garters.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

>>Turtles and snakes are the easiest as a group. By that-the popular "painted turtle" is allways a good beginner. Some of the "land" tortises are also great. Thses have lighting and dietary needs that must be addressed.
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>> Snakes are even easier. I recomend the basics. Any of the Florida Kings are as tough as it gets and very handleable. The American obsoleta group-Black-yellow-glades...etc. The Corn snakes.
>>
>>A very easy species to keep and breed is the African Brown House Snake.
>>
>>If you don't want a mouse eater, go garters.
>>
>>Frank
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>>"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

"Turtle and snakes are easiest as a group"? I would argue that lizards are generally no more difficult than snakes, generally easier than turtles. Nocturnal geckos, such as leopard geckos, banded geckos, crested geckos, require minimal space, no special lighting, and thrive on crickets and mealworms. If you have a bigger budget and more space, bearded dragons or blue tongue skinks are good beginner lizards, but require UV lighting as well as high temps and a pretty large enclosure.

You can't go wrong with a leopard gecko. They're widespread, low cost, low maintenance, come in many different color morphs, and are very well tempered.
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Chris

1.0.1 Coleonyx variegatus
1.0.0 Gekko vittatus
1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus

Terrestrial? Who you calling terrestrial?!!

No way....

A snake can be kept on a simple diet of just mice, requires no special lighting or supliments....Unlike a lizard.

Turtles Are hardier than lizards.

Leopard geckos are ok...but not as easiy to keep which is the criteria here.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

>>No way....
>>
>>
>>A snake can be kept on a simple diet of just mice, requires no special lighting or supliments....Unlike a lizard.
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>>Turtles Are hardier than lizards.
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>>Leopard geckos are ok...but not as easiy to keep which is the criteria here.
>>
>>Frank
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>>"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I must beg to differ.

Don't get me wrong, I love snakes and don't feel that most are particularly difficult for beginners to care for, but neither are many lizards.

Let's compare a corn snake and a leopard gecko, two common "beginner" herps.

Corn Snake needs: Enclosure, secure lid, simple substrate, heat source, water dish, hide box, mice

Leo needs: Enclosure, simple substrate, heat source, water dish, hide box, crickets, vitamin dust

Their needs and ease of care are nearly identical, except that I would argue that it's easier to shake in a couple of crickets every few days than it is to thaw out a mouse once a week. Not to mention the greater risk of a snake escaping if you don't have a secure lid.

I would also argue that turtles are not as easy as snakes or lizards overall because of 1) more stringent care requirements (water depth, water quality, feeding, UV lighting), or 2) propensity to grow large and heavy in some species of tortoises.

Of course, all this varies depending on what species we are talking about. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I just feel that it's not quite accurate to classify snakes as "easier" than lizards, generally speaking.

BTW, let's not forget to mention that leopard geckos are "house trained" and always crap in the same corner of the tank..

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Chris

1.0.1 Coleonyx variegatus
1.0.0 Gekko vittatus
1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus

Terrestrial? Who you calling terrestrial?!!

Nice try. The secure lid is specific to non climbing creatures like your leopard gecko. However that is an exception-not the rule in lizards. But we will go with your out of the ordinary example (though if we went Iquana or anole...etc there would be even les advantages)

A hidebox is not necessary for keeping a corn. I know, I have kept hundreds of them. So we subtract one factor from your list.

For me a heat source for either is uneccessary except in winter (the FLA advantage).

The mouse issue is again; a matter of source. If you have a good supply of live you don't need to thaw. On the other hand...Few lizards I know of will take thawed crickets. Many lizards will die on just a cricket diet.

Now the house breaking you have me on, but a corn snake can live well on one meal every two weeks (if you are not pumping it for growth.) compared to how many days a week for feeding the gecko? Add that feeding factor in and I see the score at:

Gecko: Factors listed 1=8

Corn snake: Factors listed -1=6 Low number wins.

As for Turtles, water depth is irrelivent. Water quality is an issue for all herps. UV lighting is an issue for most lizards as well. Size is an issue relative to the keeper. I see turtles at even with the lizards.

Not an arguement, just a friendly debate.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

The original question referred to ease of keeping herps. I feel that boils down to "how difficult is it to maintain this creature in captivity". Thus the question of whether it needs a lid/hide box or not is irrelevant, as it is just as easy to maintain an enclosure that has a hide box and lid as it is to maintain one that doesn't. My aim in listing the equipment was to show the parity, not disparity, between keeping snakes or lizards.

As for the heater, not all of us live in sunny Florida (I'm in Seattle), but again, does having or not having a heater make caring for the animal any more or less difficult? I would say no.

What about substrate? Any of the species I listed in my original post can be kept on paper towels. I don't know if that's true for corns, but assuming they can be, again we see parity.

While it's true that UV lighting is an issue for diurnal lizards, nocturnals such as leos and cresteds don't need it. I will admit that maybe I shouldn't have included BTS or beardies in my original list, but note that the leopard gecko was my final recommedation.

So what it comes down to for me are the issues of feeding and cleaning. Nothing need be said about the ease of cleaning paper towel substrate. As for feeding, I guess its just a matter of opinion as to whether crickets twice a week or mice twice a month are easier. I used to feed live mice to my Ball Python until one bit her, after that it was only f/t from then on. For me, the bugs are easier. For the times when I can't get crix, or am just feeling slothful, I just fill a bowl with mealworms from the fridge and the lizards eat when they feel like it. I can go 10 days before I need to add more.

>>As for Turtles, water depth is irrelivent. Water quality is an issue for all herps. UV lighting is an issue for most lizards as well. Size is an issue relative to the keeper. I see turtles at even with the lizards.

I've never kept turtles, but what I've read about some species (red eared sliders, for example) tells me that they need water depth 1 1/2 to twice their body length (why?). Factor this in with: the need to change/clean the water regularly; the need to keep the water heated to a certain temperature; the need for both land and water areas in the same enclosure. I would say that adds up to more difficulty in care compared to most lizards.

Snakes and lizards are about equally difficult (or easy, if you prefer) to care for, turtles somewhat more so, IMHO.
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Chris

1.0.1 Coleonyx variegatus
1.0.0 Gekko vittatus
1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus

Terrestrial? Who you calling terrestrial?!!

1 1/2 to what? My friend you are too technical (no wonder you think they are difficult). I have kept dozens of the lil turtles (S. Fla is slider country). As to temp; they are remarkably flexable. Tank maintnence can be a bear for a very large one, but that's what ponds are for.

You mention substrate. Corns can be kept on newspaper if you want to (cheaper than towels) Easy clean up as they don't poop as frequently as lizards.

Getting bit by your food is easily stopped by stunning th mice as you feed them. My snakes eat live and because i stun prey there are no probs with bites (and it's sooooo Fresh! (Yummmmm)(lol)

Seattle (do you know Thane?). I will grant you that geography plays into this on the turtles...but you still need less time, maintenence and feedings to keep the corn alive than the gecko. Plus...corns are more handleable and easier to transport. When in doubt, pick a pocket.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

North American colubrid snakes are the easiest of the herps to keep. They need about 5 minutes of work per week. I have 3 snakes in 3 cages, a $10 heat mat under their tank, and spot clean their cages each week, and change their aspen bedding every 6-8 weeks.

I have some crested geckos and they are also very easy, but require more time than my snakes because they have to be fed 3-5 times a week.

Many reptiles are outstanding pets if you don't want or can't put in daily time to a pet.

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Matt from Minnesota
Cornsnake, Eastern Kingsnake, IL Bullsnake - all girls.
One Pair of cute Crested Geckos.