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ALL OHIO RAID... Some info and my thoughts...Pleasre take a look and be heard!

rick s. Jul 01, 2003 12:23 AM

Hello all. Well, it doesn't look good for the show happening again any time soon. A lot of vendors were sited, many wrongly, and I doubt many out of state vendors will be rerurning. Apparently, no reptiles can be brought into Ohio to sell without veterninary paperwork on each animal. If the animals are protected in neighboring states and aren't native to Ohio, you have to have paper work proving they are captive bred and they have to be microchiped. Any species that is native to Ohio is basically the same thing, they have to have paperwork and must be microchiped. Many vendors were sited for having animals that were misidentified by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources. I know of vendors sited for Maxican Black Kings, identified as Black Racers, corn snakes, Id'd as eastern Milks, and Texas rats, not sure what they were calling them! A few vendors were sited for having albino black rats and leucistic hognose. As far as I know, mutations are not covered under Ohio's laws, so they were also wrongly sited.

Supposedly the intent was to bust a ring that was collecting in the wild and not documenting these animals. In 2000, a law was passed in Ohio that outlawed the taking of species from the wild. You can take up to 4 native herps, but you have to register them within 10 days of capture, at ten bucks each animal. If they are in your possesion more than 30 days, they can not be released back to the wild and you must have them microchipped by the state. You have to renew the registration every year, at ten bucks each, and any offspring have to be microchipped and the info sent to ODNR. Most of the states surrounding Ohio have pretty similar laws. Some people were getting around the laws by taking animals across state lines to sell or to keep. The only problem there is that the Lacy Act was being broken, so federal charges could be brought, and have been. From the way the ODNR and feds handeled the raid, it was pretty obvious that the real intent was to close this show down, possibly for ever.

The thing that really sucks is that since 2000, they had been staking out the show, and actually had undercover guys posing as vendors at the show for a pretty long time. They had pictures, phone taps, and emails.

I know that a lot of you are thinking, "So what, that's Ohio, I'm in(insert state here), how is that going to affect me?" What you should be thinking is, "When will it happen here?" Every year we lose more and more of our freedoms to keep and collect herps. I know we always say, "This is too far, we need to stand up and be heard!" Well, the time is now. Any one who lives in Ohio, or any other state with ridiculous laws applied to herps, we need to write as many people as we need, we need to get the media to look at our side of things and publicize that. Call your local news stations, write the appropriate people, do anything, just make a difference for the good! Have the media point out all of the errors that were made by supposed "experts" that can't even properly identify native species in the state they work for! The major amount of money, I honestly wouldn't at all doubt if they spent more than $1,000,000 all told, to bust a handful of people and to confiscate $50,000 in animals. Is this really a victory over evil poachers, or a HUGE waste of tax money, my money, your money?

Any way, please don't take this lying down, the time is now. If we don't fight for our rights no one will!

Thanks,
Rick S.

Replies (10)

Passport Jul 01, 2003 07:22 AM

I am in agreement with your comments. But, somtimes I think we are "screaming into the wind". Folks today are just too busy trying to make a living. Then too tired to do anything but drop on the sofa in front of the TV. Then in denial as to the seriousness of the situation. Yes, this hobby is being destroyed. Some who are involved in the destruction believe that they are helping the "poor animals". Others know better. I see it as Big Brother desiring complete control over the activities and money of law abiding citizens. Almost impossible today to go to work and return without breaking some kind of law. We can protest individually until we are blue in the face and nothing will change. Recently there was a bill in my state concerning the control of buying, selling and the keeping in captivity of primates and reptiles. Not one of the three lfs in my city had any knowledge about this bill. They knew nothing about it All this is being done in the open and yet we are completely surprized when we are affected by another new law. I've heard just about every excuse for not being active or involved. Most excuses are genuine but if we want to continue with our hobbies we must make some changes. Or be prepared to give up our animals or face prosecution or worse.

Amanda E Jul 01, 2003 07:24 AM

I live in OH and while I haven't personally looked at the documents regarding native reptiles, such as black ratsnakes, I talked to a person that works with the ODNR and he told me that any form of a certain species, normal colored or not is subjected to the same rules. Because of this, albino blackrats would have to have paperwork to be kept/sold in OH.

While I believe you were wrong on this paticular point, I do think (and I know many other legit people that feel the same way) that ODNR laws are way too strict and that soon other people not associated with the Columbus show will see affects of this raid.

I regularly go to the NOAH (Northern Ohio Association of Herpetologists) show and I know that there have been questionable species sold there, usually just turtles too small, but I fear that ODNR will come to Cleveland and begin an investigation there as well, if NOAH doesn't come down hard on those vendors selling these animals.

meretseger Jul 01, 2003 05:21 PM

Albinos are subject to the same regulations as normals. Red eared sliders are for some god awful reason considered a native species. Watch your back....

-Thinking about moving in Columbus

Amanda E Jul 01, 2003 09:05 PM

Yep. Even though red eared sliders aren't originally native to this area, they are so well integrated that they are now considered "native."

-----
alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 '01 Hypo snow cornsnake (Tesla)
0.1 '02 Ghost (pastel) cornsnake (Banshee)
1.1 '02 Bloodred cornsnakes (Desi and Luci Too)
0.0.4 '03 American toads
0.0.3 Goldfish (Kabuki, Isamu, and Yuki)
1.0 American Eskimo mutt (Rusty)

mmfrankford Jul 01, 2003 10:24 AM

..

DeanAlessandrini Jul 01, 2003 12:18 PM

Here's the link to the regs. from the ODNR site.
It mentions nothing at all about regs. on non-native species.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/License/pub03.htm

carl3 Jul 01, 2003 12:31 PM

For those that have NOT been to the All-Ohio Reptile shows, it is (in my opinion) a nice show and ranks pretty similar when compared to other shows in various other states across the east coast. Maybe things changed, I personally don't know since I have not been to that particular show in a long time. Although I don't live in Ohio anymore, I think it is a real shame to close down an entire show based on either the poor judgement of a few vendors or their lack of knowledge concerning herp laws. That show is also where I got my first snake almost 10 years ago!

At any rate, does anyone have any media/news links related to this story? (so we can read how the media is portraying this incident or to gain more knowledge/facts about it)???

carl3 Jul 01, 2003 01:30 PM

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2300911/detail.html
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plain...79539133670.xml
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...cies-raid_x.htm
http://www.13abc.com/index.cfm?Arti...&SideID=&IsItm=
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-brea...90941-8214r.htm
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/6201780.htm
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/2303760/detail.html

okeeteedude Jul 02, 2003 08:09 AM

There are a ton of media links over on that website that I cannot say here because it will be bleeped out.

bc_reptiles Jul 01, 2003 07:10 PM

My wife and I were talking about this earlier today and she had a thought.

She said that it is possible that when the officials got to the expo, there weren't the amount of illegal animals that they thought would be there. So, just for the media, they started "playing" dumb and issuing fines and taking animals that they "misidentified". This way, the media would have large numbers of "illegal" animals to report on. I'm sure the media will not follow up and print all the dropped charges when they happen at a later time.

It sells papers and makes people watch the local news...Think about it!

Brian Miller
-----
BC Reptiles
Reptile Breeders and Outfitters
www.bcreptiles.net
bc_reptiles@yahoo.com

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