Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When bringing a sample to the vet for testing how fresh does it have to be? I collected one today but the vet isn't open until tommorow, will it still be good? What can I do to preserve it a bit? Thanks.
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0.0.1 Green Water Dragon
1.0.0 Tokay Gecko
1.1.1 Bearded Dragons
0.1.0 Columbian Red-tailed Boa
1.0.0 Yellow Ratsnake
0.0.1 California Kingsnake
0.0.1 Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0.0 Evil Budgie

Does anyone know a good book on reptile diseases and conditions because i'd like to become more familiar with them, thanks
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0.0.1 Green Water Dragon
1.0.0 Tokay Gecko
1.1.1 Bearded Dragons
0.1.0 Columbian Red-tailed Boa
1.0.0 Yellow Ratsnake
0.0.1 California Kingsnake
0.0.1 Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0.0 Evil Budgie

There are several fixatives used for the preservation of fecal samples, (polyvinyl alcohol, formalin, etc.), but these are obviously not readily available unless you have them on hand in anticipation of fixing a sample. Aside from this, the sample can be refrigerated in a small plastic bag for probably up to 24 hours at the most before examination, although even cooled in this manner, degradation will start within a few hours. Ideally, unless chemically fixed, the sample should be examined as soon as possible within those first few hours. The best way is if you think you may be taking a sample in to a vet in the future, ask them in advance for a laboratory fecal sampling container that has the fixative already in it. This will preserve the sample for days or weeks and allow you the time to get it to the vet without compromising the sample.

Kelly

Kelly has given you a perfect answer to the first part of your question.

For the second part, a good book to familiarize yourself with some of the common parasitic diseases of reptiles is Understanding Reptile Parasites by Dr. Roger Klingenberg. It is a very basic book and is easy to read and understand by people who are not really familiar with Parasitology. If you plan to try to acquire a microscope and identify and treat parasites yourself, there is the accompanying Reptile Parasite Identification Chart and Formulary, also by Dr. Klingenberg. Both are available from:

The Bean Farm
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

The fresher the fecal sample the better! I have had unrefrigerated samples last up to a day before witnesing bacterium began attacking its contents. Refrigeration is the best methode though. I currently work for a veterinary clinic and based on my experience I can say that it would be advisable to avoid using chemical preservatives because it may interfear with the specific gravity of the floatation mediums used by some veterinarians. For best results, refrigerate (not freez) the sample and try to get it in to the vet office within 48 hours. As for a good book I heavily reccomend "reptile medicine & surgery" by Douglas R. Mader, Geoff Stein. It is an excellent book even for individuals with limited medical knowlege. Mader is a highly renound reptile specialist and comes with high reccomendation! Hope this helps!

>>The fresher the fecal sample the better! I have had unrefrigerated samples last up to a day before witnesing bacterium began attacking its contents. Refrigeration is the best methode though. I currently work for a veterinary clinic and based on my experience I can say that it would be advisable to avoid using chemical preservatives because it may interfear with the specific gravity of the floatation mediums used by some veterinarians. For best results, refrigerate (not freez) the sample and try to get it in to the vet office within 48 hours. As for a good book I heavily reccomend "reptile medicine & surgery" by Douglas R. Mader, Geoff Stein. It is an excellent book even for individuals with limited medical knowlege. Mader is a highly renound reptile specialist and comes with high reccomendation! Hope this helps!

Quote:".... and based on my experience I can say that it would be advisable to avoid using chemical preservatives because it may interfear with the specific gravity of the floatation mediums used by some veterinarians."

This is simply not the case when the proper preservatives are used correctly. The use of 10% buffered Formalin, Zinc Sulfate PVA, and Sodium Acetate Formalin are widely used and accepted methods of preserving fecal samples for flotation and direct smear evaluation. In the past Mercuric Chloride PVA was also used but it has been discontinued because of possible environmental impact. As long as the flotation medium (Fecasol or equivalent) has a specific gravity such that the heavier fecal matter will not float and the lighter parasite ova and oocysts will float, then it should work fine. If you did have a situation where a sample failed differential flotation because the specific gravity was incorrect, you can simply centrifuge that specimen.

It is true that refrigeration is the best method of preservation for the short term, up to a maximum of about 24 hours or so. You are also correct in that samples should never be frozen. Freezing will cause parasite ova and oocysts to rupture, rendering them unidentifiable. The same applies to tissue samples collected for cytology, or any deceased whole animal intended for necropsy.

I agree that Mader's book is a good veterinary reference, however Klingenberg's book was recommended because of the detail he goes into (in plain English) explaining the life-cycles and infection routes of the various parasites found in reptiles. Plus..it's much cheaper than Mader's book. I have several books on Parasitology (I even still have some textbooks from college) that would be much better than either Mader's or Klingenberg's books for detailed study of Parasitology, but the layman would not be able to make any sense of them at all.

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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Oldherper, after reading your reply I realized a few errors in my writting. Metronidazol is 250mg/capsule! This was a typing error and I apologies to all who may have read it. Unfortunatly, I do not have reference to the absorption rate of metronidazol in vegetable oil. This technique has worked for me in the past, however, you make a very good point and I will be more careful in the future when suggesting personal techniques. As for the use of preservatives I should clarify myself. I did not mean to speak out against their use. The point I was attempting to make was that the Veterinarians that I have visited as a client and worked for, prefer the samples to be as fresh as possible and without preservatives (if possible of course). This is what I meant when I said "from my experience." I did not mean to imply that such methodes will not work, nor had I any intention of downplaying their use. I stand corrected! Thank you again for your reply.

>>Oldherper, after reading your reply I realized a few errors in my writting. Metronidazol is 250mg/capsule! This was a typing error and I apologies to all who may have read it. Unfortunatly, I do not have reference to the absorption rate of metronidazol in vegetable oil. This technique has worked for me in the past, however, you make a very good point and I will be more careful in the future when suggesting personal techniques. As for the use of preservatives I should clarify myself. I did not mean to speak out against their use. The point I was attempting to make was that the Veterinarians that I have visited as a client and worked for, prefer the samples to be as fresh as possible and without preservatives (if possible of course). This is what I meant when I said "from my experience." I did not mean to imply that such methodes will not work, nor had I any intention of downplaying their use. I stand corrected! Thank you again for your reply.

My main concern was that someone would read that and actually dose their snake at 250 mg/kg, which would probably prove fatal. I knew it was a typo on your part, but wasn't sure everyone else would realize that.

As far as the use of preservatives, there's probably no real concern. The average pet snake owner isn't going to have access to these preservatives, nor will they know how to apply them. The most likely thing is that they will speak to a Veterinarian and he or she will advise them to refrigerate it or bring it in fresh. Most Veterinarians will even provide a Fecalyzer to collect and store the sample.

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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

I strongly agree with Oldherper's overview on the preservatives. These are all standard and accepted procedures for proper fecal preservation and examination without interfering to any great degree with the identification process. While more complicated than the flotation method, I personally use the ethyl acetate sedimentation method. The main drawback with this method for most people is that they don't have ready access to a centrifuge. While not required, the use of a centrifuge greatly increases the speed and effectiveness of the procedure. The wash and decant steps take a little practice, but the final recovery results of this method are excellent.

Kelly

Thanks for the replies...and as for the book the complexity is not a factor as a third year animal biology magor I should be able to get the just of it. I wasn't planning on checking the samples myself although I would if microscopes were not so expensive. Again thank you for all your help I am going to try to find those books up here unless bean farm ships to canada.
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0.0.1 Green Water Dragon
1.0.0 Tokay Gecko
1.1.1 Bearded Dragons
0.1.0 Columbian Red-tailed Boa
1.0.0 Yellow Ratsnake
0.0.1 California Kingsnake
0.0.1 Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0.0 Evil Budgie