Reptile & Amphibian Forums

JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SEE THIS POOR THING

HE'S ACUALLY EATING AND GAINING SOME SUSTANSIAL WEIGHT.

Now there's a question. If it's eating ok and gaining weight should you leave it alone or euthanize it because of it's deformities? I would leave it myself...

I would say that that frog will not do well in the long run. Its mobility will be hindered , to say the least. I would guess that you have it in a quarantine tub for froglets , if/when it was big enough to be in a larger container, a viv, he would not fair so well. I realy do not think the frog will survive.

Putting the frog down would be the humane thing to do. Breeding it if/when it did mature would not be an option , so best case senario is you have a very deformed frog that will never be mobile. This is a problem that most who breed darts have to deal with sooner or later. A frog with one eye or three legs may be able to live a somewhat normal life . That poor little guy pictured will never have that opportunity. Euthanasia is the ethical thing to do.

Rich

i have a question for Rich. If you had a child that was born with a phisical or mental disability, would you euthanize him or her? Just because this animal may need a special viv so that it can live happily i personally feel that it should get that extra care. If you dont agree with me are you saying that the hypothetical child with the disabilities should be euthanized because he or she requires a little extra attention and care? If you can honestly say that, you may need some special help.. from a psychiatrist. Sorry if i come off strong, it just makes me upset when people are too lazy to give the extra care to some thing that needs it.

Mark

Posted by: iggyluver at Mon Nov 22 17:08:12 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

"i have a question for Rich. If you had a child that was born with a phisical or mental disability, would you euthanize him or her? "

Mark ,
Euthanasia is not a human option as it is in animals, but I think that if I had a newborn child that was horribly malformed and was going to die eventualy of pain and or starvation, and there was no cure or treatment.......well that is a bad situation, much as the one we are talking about now.

"Just because this animal may need a special viv so that it can live happily i personally feel that it should get that extra care."

Mark,
Do we know exactly what care that would be? I have seen more than a few of these gross malformities and it is my opinion that this frog will not survive with any amount of "care". In my mind it is not care that you are giving a frog such as the six legged one , you are postponing the inevitable . When would you euthanize? After you actualy can see it wasting away or not being able to move, or do you just wait for it to die on its own?

"If you dont agree with me are you saying that the hypothetical child with the disabilities should be euthanized because he or she requires a little extra attention and care? If you can honestly say that, you may need some special help.. from a psychiatrist."

Mark,
I hope that we are not actualy equating a six legged frog with a new born. If we are then I do indeed believe that a psychiatrist is needed.
Again, this is not just " a little extra care or attention" we are talking about here.

"Sorry if i come off strong, it just makes me upset when people are too lazy to give the extra care to some thing that needs it. "

Mark,
no need to appologize at all. I am glad to see that people care about their frogs. I just have a feeling that I know what will happen to this unfortunate frog in the future having seen similar deformities.
I treat darts all the time, my brother is a vet so I do know the amount of time required to save/treat Darts. I do it every day.I would most definatly not consider myself a lazy man.
I care very deeply about my frogs and others, this is why I stick to my guns and unfortunatly say that euthanasia IS the ethical thing to do. Not a happy thing , but an ethical thing.

Rich

I see your side....I just feel like some times people pawn off pets like disposable "things" , and when you said euthanize it, i was only thinking that you ment because it was ugly, but now i can see where you are coming from and realize that euthanizing it could be a very ethical option. I also feel that every animal has the right to a chance to live before it is decided for it that it is unfit to live. So i am saying that i think that if any way possible that the frog could live a happy life dragging a few extra legs around it should be able to, but if the person caring for it sees that it is having a hard time and not doing well that euthanasea could be the only option. Again these are just my opinions and it is ultimately the care takers decision, these are just some things to think about before you must make a decision.

Mark

As Rich said in essence, frogs are not humans. We have no choice with humans, no matter how terrible their birth defects, or how hopeless. Some of us, including myself, tend to get nearly as sentimental and attached to a frog as we do our own children.

I see nothing wrong with keeping a deformed frog as long as it appears to be doing well. That advice is for your own welfare and sentiment. But don't let it slowly decline and suffer. Put it down at the first sign of this. That will satisfy your instinct to save it, as long as you are willing to put in the special effort to keep it, and perhaps fail. If on the off-chance it still thrives, you can come back and give us all the bird about euthanizing.

Do you have the resources to contact a herp vet and perhaps have the extra appendages amputated? One would do that with a human child of one's own. I personally wouldn't go to this extent for a deformed frog, however.

No one needs a psychiatrist here.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

LOOK PEOPLE I WASN'T TRY TO START SOME BIG ETHICS DEBATE. THIS GUY CAME OUT OF THE WATER ALL MESSED UP . I JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT HIM BEFORE HE (inevitably) DIES WHETHER BY MY HAND OR NATURAL CAUSES. I'M NOT TAKING HIM TO A VET FOR SURGERY!!!!!! HE WAS BUT ONE FROG IN A CAST OF THOUSANDS PRODUCED HERE EVERY YEAR AND HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE A LITTLE BIZARRE. ENJOY THE PHOTOS AND LETS TRY TO GET OVER THIS TOGETHER.
"SNIFFLE SNIFFLE"
THANKS FOR THE REPLIES,
JOHNNY
THIS ISLAND EARTH HERPETOCULTURE

Why do you seem to be offended by the replies? You posted a problem and got various answers to it. The choices are yours alone. We were just posing different things to consider. No one was criticizing you about your concern. When I made the suggestion of taking a frog to a vet, I was particularly thinking of a personal thing with a hopeless child, born deaf, blind, and without any brain except that that portion that kept it alive. The child lived for two years, consumed its parents' lives and finances to the neglect of their other two heathy children. If euthanassia were a choice among humans, this would have been the thing to do with this vegetable child, but it wasn't an option, either emotionally for the parents or legally. What I said were just options for a frog, not judgements upon whether you would consider them or not.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I think we all appreciate you posting this pic. However, you must remember you posted it on a forum. No offense, but if you don't want replies, then maybe you shouldn't post at all? I've seen much more malignant posts on other threads than the ones that have been made on this one. Personally, I think this has been a healthy debate that resulted in a meeting of the minds. Just what a forum is for!

Randy

In spite of posting what I think is the more practical option, in support of Rich's advice, I would personally be too sentimental over "only a malformed frog" to euthanize such a frog and would try to "save it," in spite of the slim chance of doing so. It's a case of "Do as I think is right, not as I would actually do." I don't think anyone intends to offend anyone else's sensitivities. It's just a discussion of different views on a subject for the original poster to weigh and decide for himself what to do.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Concidering the painful life of the frog, i agree, that putting it down is the best.

you can't tell me that it isn't suffering and you can't tell me that you're keeping it becuase you care. put it down or just know that you don't care for it.

it's not a show off animal, it's life.

for some reason, it was incubated, and such, in the wrong atmophere. like those in Iowa, the leopard frogs being born with four hind legs, siz eyes, no jaw, etc.

you have an animal that is suffering, up to you and i'd like to know what you decide!
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