Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Actually I have a couple of questions. First, in your opinion, or in any observations that you have made, do monitors have a so called "biological clock"? By that I mean are they or should they be aware of the position of the sun/moon in the sky.
Another question. If they do have that "biological clock" could it be thrown out of wack spending 24 hours /- in a dark box wile being shipped somewere?

The reason I ask is because I recently aquired an Argus/Flavi cross that only emerges from its burrows at about 5-6 p.m. every day. It is then active for most of the night. I guess what I am trying to get at is: Is there some way i could get this monitor to change its habbits? Or, should I just listen to my animal and go to 24/7 lighting?

Thanks,
Dave

Yes, in my opinion, they have a "biological clock" unfortunately, they have several that do different things.

First, the becoming active late is more about avoiding you, even with such nice calm species as the gouldi group. That is, if temps are suitable.

Also, yes, there are many many ways to change them. The first and easist and most fun, is to train them to food. One of their traits is, to appear where and when food occurs. Please consider, at one time, I flew birds(falconry) I learned the value of feeding to accomplish tasks. After I learned how to man and train birds, I tried the same techniques on other animals, like parakeets, raccoons, wild mice, anything I could. At this time, I have "pet" roadrunners and scaly lizards, that feed from my hands, sit in my lap, and in all other ways are totally wild.

Now understand this, the above method is what I call and pull method, that is, its a positive enducement. You could also, turn the lites off at night, and lower the heat, this will force them to only come out in the day, this is a negative inducement, pushed or forced behavior.

Now also understand, the right or wrong is not which method you use or if you use both methods, you should use what works best for you and your monitors.

More about the clock, or better yet, natural rhythms. I feel my biggest problems are indeed fighting those clocks. Ones like seasons. For instance, an ozzie monitors is programed backwards to the north american seasons. They want winter to be summer and summer to be winter. I find, they are sensitive to temps and such, but not wholely, they still are influenced by their natural rhythms. Again for instance, no matter what we do with temps, even keeping them outside, Croc monitors or lace monitors, "Want" to breed in our fall and winter, when its cold.

Normally this is not a problem with small species, that can easily be housed indoors, but larger monitors are a bit of a problem, or at least something you fight on a constant basis. Maybe after lots of generations this will disappear, but that has not happened so far. Thanks for the great questions. FR

Thanks for the input Frank. The argus is just shy of 2' long and kept in a 5x3x2 enclosure. Ambient temps in the mid 80's with basking spots over plywood stack anywere from 125-150 degrees. It is content to stay out once it has emerged and doesn't mind me being around or going into the enclosure. I have fed mice from hemostats to it but most of the time I will put 2-3 in a disposable white dish. He(it) does respond to the feeding dish as a place were food comes from. I removed it from its enclosure for a soak yesterday morning hoping he would remain active after that, but he was content to return to his hides. It already has an intricate maze of tunnels, and I would hate to have to "dig" him up in order to try to feed as positive reinforcement. On the other hand I don't want to deprive him of the heat needed to properly digest meals. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! Maybe I'll just wait it out and see if he comes around, and in the meantime leave the lights on late at night.
You wrote:
More about the clock, or better yet, natural rhythms. I feel my biggest problems are indeed fighting those clocks. Ones like seasons. For instance, an ozzie monitors is programed backwards to the north american seasons.

and that would lead me to ask you this: Do captive bred/hatched animals still have this natural rythm from their home range?

Thanks again,
Dave

Here's the enclosure

Sometimes we as keepers, are the ones being trained. In this case, the monitor is training you. Please understand, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, its by far the best.

But if you want to train the monitor to come out and be active, for your enjoyment, You have to take the strong hand. You cannot feed out of training. You must also, allow the monitor to become sharp(falconer term which means get really hungry) If the monitor is not really hungry, why would it go out it its way and brave you for food. If this is what you want to do, be strong. hahahahahahahaha or not. Soon the monitor will treat you as a hunting partner.

You will learn soon enough that a healthy monitor, is always hungry. Consider training is about repetition, which means, if you can do it many times a day, it will work much faster. how you do that is, small bits of food. But, with monitors, they are really fast to learn.

Again, the question is, whos training who, hahahahahahaha, i get the feeling, we are being trained in most cases. FR

And I thank you again. You are correct we are the ones being trained I think I'm gonna thaw a couple of mice and wake up sleeping beauty, or "Odie" as my daughter has so named him.

Dave

Hi,

Just keep at it, as Frank said, sometimes you need to let them get hungry. Consistency and patience are your best tools.

If something isn't right husbandry wise, they don't seem to have a normal appetite (not saying this is the case here, just something to think about).

Gouldii complex are really cool monitors, I wish I had the space, time, and skill to keep some more.

There are few things as neat, as monitors that will come out when it is time to feed. The biological clock thing.... If you feed about the same time, they do seem to know when it is, and will get antsy if they are hungry and you are late.

Good Luck,

--Robert

All animals have a biological clock or biorythms inherent within them (see writing of Dr. Curt Richter, biorythms discoverer; also "Biological Rythms by Alain Reinberg and Jean Ghata (1964). Biorythms are those behaviors which keep the body nutritionally balanced, and that 'internal mechanisms operating in predictable cycles(Richter, 1927)'.

Bert Langerwerf tells of his animals that cycle as per Mediterranean region saurians take roughly 3 years to adapt and change to his N. orth American cycles...do varanids do this too?

I have kept African varanids which cycle routinely in the summer months, which as fr has alluded to are opposite to our seasons, and they go off feed, breed and deposit large number of eggs in our winter months like clock work; Pacific varanids lives os more or less equatorial climate and breed throughout the year with small clutches, rather the annual seasonal breeding of the African types - it is all related to climate some how.

Often is the case with African varanid that when the temp suddenly drops dramatically, the animals engage in immediate courtship behavior, drop their eggs and move on...did they recieve internal signals that is climate change time and have to breed now??

Cheers,
mbayless

Mark if Bert’s lizards took 3 years to breed its got nothing to do with north American cycle, its most likely the time they needed to mature, or the time it took Bert to correct his husbandry. Also none of my African monitors are affected by seasons and all can breed at any time of the year and multiclutche, I think its because my facility isn’t affected by temperature changes, I pay attention to such details, but I can understand that the average keepers home may exhibit a seasonal temperature fluctuation, most peoples home ranges from hot 80-90f summer to 70-75f winter I believe this is enough to trigger a reaction in monitors.