Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know what the hatchling success rate is for a female Ball Python's first breeding?

I owned a pair of Russian Tortoises a while ago, and the female double-clutched her first season -- 3 eggs : 2 eggs. I incubated them as instructed by the "professionals" using a Turbo Hova-Bator. (This is actually recommended.) No success. However, it is widely known that a Russian Tortoise's first clutch is seldom viable.

I was wondering if the same holds true with Ball Pythons.

Thanks,
Chris
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

I think for the most part you should hatch out most of your eggs. My first clutch for my het albino female last year was 100% successful. She had 5 eggs (all hatched) and 2 came out albino (hetxhet). It was her first clutch. She actually wasn't a real big female either!

Jason

My most reliable female laid 5 eggs in her first clutch and I hatched out 6 healthy babies (twins). She laid for her 5th consecutive year in 04 and I hatched 7 of 7. I think this 1997 girl has now produced 29 healthy babies from 28 eggs. She may never get big enough to lay a 15 egg clutch but I can't knock her for consistency. She is back up around her pre-lay weight of about 2,000 grams so looks good for 6 years in a row getting a little bigger each year. I owned her parents at one time and one of her grand daughters conceivably could go this year for a 5th generation.

I also had a first time girl produce a clutch of 3 slugs, 2 infertile eggs, and only 2 fertile eggs this year. Both fertile eggs hatched VERY small (like 20 gram) babies that ate well and grew quickly.

Can't really tell you why some do better than others. Maybe things I did wrong or maybe some are just better suited for captive breeding. Kind of glad I've got so many daughters and now a few granddaughters out of the old reliable one scattered through my collection. Her three 04 daughters have really taken off well for late hatchlings.

COuple of things involved in you question...egg fertility and hatch rate. IF an egg is laid fertile and then incubated naturally or atificially, it will hatch. Moms age (or the fact that it is her first clutch) does not matter in this regard. BP egss are easy to hatch. I have heard that very young females, or clutches sired by an immature male, can have a high percentage of infertile eggs or slugs. If the parents are healthy and ready to breed, it is likely that you will get a clutch of mostly fertile eggs. I had a very large female breed for the first time 2 years ago, and lay 10 good eggs and 1 slug. Last year she laid 9 eggs, all fertile. Older females can still throw slugs from time to time though.....so many variables (timing, quality of sperm, size of female-under or over weight, temps, etc.).

What's the difference?

I always figured there were only two types of eggs -- good (hatchlings) and bad (no hatchlings). Now there's talk of slugs, infertile eggs, bad eggs, etc. I'm starting to get confused. =)

Thanks,
Chris
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

A slug looks bad right off - it will be small and yellow/tan in color. Eggs gone bad or infertile eggs start out looking good and then sometime during the incubation period will get that yellowish color, get hard or very soft and squishy.

Cheryl

I only recently found out the difference myself. I think it was Tracy Barker who posted that the slugs are actually something that went wrong with the female and the ova didn't mature into real eggs. The ones that come out looking good but candle with no veins either died well before being laid or where never fertilized (perhaps the male's fault). My stellar first clutch this year had some of each in addition to a whopping 2 good eggs.

I've decided it's a good idea to candle because then you don't spend time worrying about and trying to "save" eggs that are dead or infertile to start with. Sometimes they take several weeks to turn bad looking and start to mold. No use treating eggs that weren’t good to start with.

is the way to go to tell if the egg actually has anything "going on" inside and it's easy enough to do. All you need is a strong light and a piece of cardboard with a hole in it, no fancy equipment needed unless you want to get a new toy!

Cheryl

With the Russian Tortoises, a Mini Maglite is recommended, so I'm assuming it's the same with Ball Pythons.

However, candling RT eggs doesn't necessarily show anything, especially for the first few weeks. Is it the same with Ball Pythons?

Thanks Again,
Chris
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

Not real sure with balls, but I do believe it's that way with most eggs, you need to get a few (2-3) weeks into incubation to see anything. My experience is with corns and kings but eggs is eggs pretty much!

Cheryl

Actually ball python eggs have strong veins (at least the live ones) visible with a small mag-lite in the dark when they are laid. I even had one with a blood ring that was apparently fertile but died before being laid. I’m told that baby pythons are pretty well developed at laying.

Before I started candling I used foot powder to treat some eggs that started molding a couple weeks in and may have been infertile to start with. For some stupid reason I didn’t think to remove the good eggs which ended up containing kinked albinos before treating. I actually think the kinking might have been caused by some temperature problem before laying and probably not the foot powder but I’m sure it and opening the incubator box for all the treatment of the bad eggs didn’t help anything.

So the babies are usually already in development by the time the eggs are laid? Cool. Saves wait time on candling. Eggs are laid, and six hours later you'll know if you've got bad eggs. Good stuff.

Thanks,
Chris
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

but I bet that you are correct. Sometimes a clutch is not right from the get go.
I think there are a few types of "egg failure". The most obvious one is the keeper's fault (incorrect incubation conditions, etc.).
I also think that there is individual egg failure. In this case, it appears to me that something goes wrong during fertilization or during egg growth to cause the egg to die or not form (like a slug or an infertile egg). I see plenty of healty hatchlings emerge from eggs that are adhered to a rotting/dead egg. It seems to me that the problem is localized and the whole clutch didn't experience the same "trauma".
The last type is one that I call clutch failure. The whole clutch is tweaked. I think this stems from the conditions that the female is exposed to in the MONTHS leading to egg laying.

I really don't have much "scientific data" to support these ideas; they are just my observations.

Randy - Did you notice anything different about the conditions the female was exposed to prior to laying that clutch? What about incubation conditions? Were there any viable eggs from other clutches in the same incubatior?

Joe
Joe Compel Reptiles

It was a first clutch. She was in a rack without much gradient and a material incubating female in another tub (all hatched fine from that clutch) when she laid. Maybe it was too hot in her tub.

Other eggs in the incubator overlapping on both sides hatched fine but the two albinos from that clutch where horribly kinked. Kind of ironic, as they where the only full term eggs (the others might not have even been fertile) from a 66% het to a 50% het and both where dead albinos.

but it is pretty cool that you proved out two possible hets - and a possible het bred to a possible het to boot! Killer luck and bad luck in the same clutch.
What you are saying makes sense - I'd say a female exposed to temperature extremes is likely to throw a tweaked clutch.
Keep us posted on fututre breeding from the pair.

Joe
Joe Compel Reptiles

I had to sell the female. The male produced two other good clutches that year but neither female proved het albino.

About the eggs already starting to develop before they're layed. I'll know to keep a close eye on the female's temps while gravid.
Thanks for the info!

Cheryl

Thanks a bunch!

Chris =)
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"I don't know about you...but I find comfort in that." -- Cowboy

it is pretty easy to tell if things are going well. Slugs stick out and are easy to identify. Infertile eggs are not easy to spot (candling solves this problem) but will probably go bad during incubation.
For anyone that is interested, here is a link to a page I wrote about candling eggs. There are some pictures of eggs, slugs, and infertile eggs.

Joe
Joe Compel Reptiles - Ball Bits - How to Candle an Egg