Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am getting near completion on my cages...finally (i'll get some pics tomorrow)...but i've come across a few questions.

I'm lining one cage with FRP for my chondro. What can I use to seal the edges with? I called GE today and they said that their 100% silicone caulks have a mildewcide in them...although they are non toxic to humans after fully cured will this be a big no no for my snakes? Should I just stick with aquarium sealant?

Also...Finishing the interior wood on the rest of the cages that wont be fully lined with FRP. I'm going to put the FRP on the bottom and about 4 inches up on each wall, but will it be okay to use a polyurethane on the rest of the enclosure? What I was going to use is called clear guard by minwax...its a mixture of poly and spar varnish and something...made for outdoor furnature that really kicks butt. i've used it on a bench before and 3 years later staying out in the elements its still looking GREAT!

I was also considering painting the FRP to be a dull brown color...keep from blinding me when I look in there with the 16" flourescent bulb in there. Paint WILL stick to FRP if the Bullyseye 1-2-3 primer is used (made by Zissner), but a 100% acryclic latex paint be a problem? (once nearly cured of course...i say nearly because it takes upwards of a year depending on the area of the country to fully cure)

Thanks,
Chris
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Caligula)... coming soon

I found some caulk at Home Depot that is water-cleanup and dries harder than silicon. I like it way better than silicon for sealing - makes a much smoother fill and is easier to replace or repair. And the harder texture means it doesn't gum up and roll when you scrub the corners.

Another product that is good is the silicon-backed teflon strips that are sold as bath sealant. It is easily replaced and works quite well. You cut it to fit. Sold in rolls. Snake poop doesn't stick to it. You can apply it over paint or poly or plastic. No chemicals, no smell.

If you go with polyurethane, be prepared to let your cage air out for weeks on end (even months depending on factors) before you can put an animal in there. Paint is so much easier to do and touch up as needed when needed. Use water-based. Semi-gloss is easy to clean and humidity-resistant to a large extent, and gloss even more so. You'll need to let the cage cure and air for awhile. Use fans and heat to speed it up.

FRP may be fine, but don't let moisture get behind it. If that happens, you'd probably be better without it and use a good gloss water-based paint instead. Easier to do too. Keep it simple but effective, otherwise you're in for problems. Then you'll buy plastic cages for your humidity-loving herps and avoid all the problems with wood and sealing.
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Mark G
Collection:
Beautiful San Felipe rosies
Some CA rosies
Some Ariz mtn kings

What was this caulk you used? Was it white lightening, which is actually an adhesive caulk? or was it an elastomeric? Thanks,
Chris
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Caligula)... coming soon

>> Harder caulk

hey now this is a family forum!
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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
0.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders

>>I'm lining one cage with FRP for my chondro. What can I use to seal the edges with? I called GE today and they said that their 100% silicone caulks have a mildewcide in them...although they are non toxic to humans after fully cured will this be a big no no for my snakes? Should I just stick with aquarium sealant?

I'd use the 100% silicone or the product that MarkG found - that sounds pretty good.

>>Also...Finishing the interior wood on the rest of the cages that wont be fully lined with FRP. I'm going to put the FRP on the bottom and about 4 inches up on each wall, but will it be okay to use a polyurethane on the rest of the enclosure? What I was going to use is called clear guard by minwax...its a mixture of poly and spar varnish and something...made for outdoor furnature that really kicks butt.

That is a good product given it's cheap cost (compared to other spar finishes). But I don't like spars for snake enclosures simply because they don't dry to a very hard finish and can take months to offgas. I think it's overkill for North American Ratsnakes.

With the FRP floor and partial sides you could probably get away with Polycrylic or another water-based polyurethane. At least for the ratsnakes. You may have to touch it up every year or so but it dries so quickly this is hardly an issue.

If you want a more durable finish I'd go with a regular oil-based poly over the exterior product. All the UV inhibitors and flexible solids in sparts or other exterior polys make me nervous in a reptile cage. Much more than the trace mold and mildew inhibitors in silicone.

With a a regular oil-based poly you can still have offgassing issues. But it will dry eventually.

>>I was also considering painting the FRP to be a dull brown color...keep from blinding me when I look in there with the 16" flourescent bulb in there. Paint WILL stick to FRP if the Bullyseye 1-2-3 primer is used (made by Zissner)

I've only used one flash primer around reptiles before and did not have any problems. Unfortunately I don't remember the product and I used it on glass, not FRP.

Can't help you there.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

I want to use an actual caulk because i'm afraid that the joints on the corners will be a place forw ater to get through and rot. was it white lightening that you used? or an elastomeric sealant? White lightening is going to dry harder, it's an adhesive caulk.

I really don't know what would be better for interior...i'll just have to think if id rather paint it or polycrylic it. paint will last longer though, wont it?

If i use a regular oil based poly on the exterior of the enclosure, will i still need to wait a good long time for it to offgas?

Here's the basic frame of the cage.

here's the vents i built to put on the sides. they'll go from the inside out. i used 4 inch pvc drains and cut the bottom out of one and put it on top of another with a bolt. lines up great!

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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Caligula)... coming soon

>>I want to use an actual caulk

I believe one of the products MarkG recommended was a caulk. The one that dried harder. Regardless, silicone is the safe choice. Heck, it holds huge aquaria together.

was it white lightening that you used? or an elastomeric sealant? White lightening is going to dry harder, it's an adhesive caulk.

I think you meant to ask this to MarkG. But...

Another caulk I've used is Vulkem, a polyurethane based product. It is freaky strong but does take a long time to offgas. However, it is safe. I've seen in many aquarium applications.

>>I really don't know what would be better for interior...i'll just have to think if id rather paint it or polycrylic it. paint will last longer though, wont it?

Paint probably would last longer. But polycrylic is very easy to use and touch ups can be done with minimal down time. Since you're using FRP for the floor and part of the sides you'll likely have very few touch ups. However, I could understand wanting to use something that you apply and forget about. In that case an INTERIOR oil-based poly is probably a good compromise. It will still offgass for a while but it will eventually dry.

Again, I'm just not comfortable with the spar finishes.

Another point about paint. I don't like it over oak. It never really fills the grain and leaves a look I just don't like. Whitewashed oak is fine, but painting it looks tacky to me. If you were going to use paint I would have steered you towards a birch laminated plywood from the start. In that case a stained exterior with clear coat and a painted interior looks pretty good.

>>If i use a regular oil based poly on the exterior of the enclosure, will i still need to wait a good long time for it to offgas?

Yes, but I'd also add it's unecessary. Just use a water based product on the exterior. Unless you've already chosen to use an oil for the interior.

Hey, the cages are coming along nicely. I don't mean to steer you away from a painted interior but I've been following your caging choices for a while now and it sounds like you really want a stained oak with a clear coat. There's no reason why you can't make that work.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks. I'll probably end up doing the water based inside and out. I agree, I dont really like the look of painted oak. Plus, thats one of the reasons I got oak - i like the texture and such.

Another question I have a bout painting is a perch for my chondro. I was thinking of using 1.5" PVC. I can put either a rustoleum primer for plastic (oil based) or zinsser 1-2-3 bulls eye and get a latex semigloss to stick. But would this be too slick of a surface for the snake to perch on? I really can't think of anything else to use in there...and I don't want the unfinished PVC look in such a nice cage, you know?
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Caligula)... coming soon

If anything could perch on that it would be a chondro. However, my personal preference would be to provide a bit more "grip".

Are you familiar with the PVC scorching technique? It makes for a very cool looking and very grippy perch.

I'm glad to hear you're going with a clear coat. If you don't like the durabililty of the water/acrylic based product you can always recoat with an oil.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

no, not familiar with that technique at all. would it be something like taking a heat gun and heating it then compressing it to make a rough surface? I'm going to use wooden dowels for the ratsnake cages since i dont have to mist them, but the chondro is giving me all my problems lol. could i maybe put some anti skid tape on the pvc then paint over that? that would give me a rougher surface...
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Caligula)... coming soon

Scroll down to the bottom of the page at the url listed below. You'll have to copy and paste.

http://www.thecarnivorousorchid.com/i/enclosuretips.htm

Here's another url to try. It's worth clicking the back/next button on this one to see if you can get anymore ideas.

http://www.eyehit.com/reptilia/gtp/2xcage/day2.htm
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

oooo i get to play with fire! lol. those actually look pretty good just by themselves...a full grown GTP i'd say use a 1.5 inch or 2 inch pvc? what would you reccomend?
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Caligula)... coming soon

I'm not a GTP guy but I always liked a slightly larger perch than body diameter with them. But I'd go with what the experts recommend.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)