Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yesterday i looked into my 5 balls cage and found all of them wrapped on a branch near one light source, the other light source had not one near it(has a branch near too). Since they werent coming down and it was time for feeding them, i tried to seperate them myself but they were too tight together. So at the end i switched the bulb they were close to, so they could start coming off one by one on their own. After a few hours they started coming down. 4 of them did and to my horror the fifth was dead hanging in place. Seems that when they were all wrapped up there, he was squished and choked to death....accidentally? Now, why the hell did they all have to perch on one branch with heat source when they had 2??? Could there be any reason? They dont like the spot? They loved each other, wanted to give a good-morning hug, and got mixed up?

but your snakes don't/didn't love each other. I'm assuming you say this because they were often huddled together when you looked in on them? They are essentially solitary creatures. You forced them to live in close quarters with each other and when you would see them all together (like on the branch under the heat light) they were most likely competing for what they felt was the best basking spot. They'll do the same for hide areas and the water dish.

Best advice:
Separate them now. Give each their own cage or buy a rack to house them in. If not, it won't be long before you find one drowned in the water dish or one (or more) go on a stress induced hunger strike.

Racks may not appeal to some keepers simply because they want to display their animals. This is fine. But you'll need to give them each their own space.

My thoughts.

You should give your snakes away pronto, and then pick up a book on Ball Pythons and read it for the next year or so before you get another snake. Go to Ralph Davis' site here for starters and look at his care sheet.

That is the worst story about keeping Ball Pythons that I've heard in a LONG time. Almost too bad. A troll perhaps?

I didn't see anything about not keeping ball pythons together. As recommended below I checked NERD's care sheet and didn't see anything there either.... I may be missing something but I didn't see it. Also has anyone read some of the early books like "The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas", which mentions communal caging for Ball pythons???

Give your snakes away...... I think there are better recommendations than that... At least be nice, no one started as an expert...

George Knaack
GLK HERP

I didn't see anything about not keeping ball pythons together. As recommended below I checked NERD's care sheet and didn't see anything there either.... I may be missing something but I didn't see it. I hate reading... Also has anyone read some of the early books like "The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas", which mentions communal caging for Ball pythons??? Give your snakes away...... I think there are better recommendations than that... At least be nice, no one started as an expert...

George Knaack
GLK HERP

np

I think a little bit of both of the replies to your post are essential to the life of you pets. You NEED to house those snakes seperately. I would get them all checked for mites, Internal parasites and the works by a vet. If one of them had anything they all do living in those tight quarters. Its not that expensive but very important. A rack system is a perfect senario for you. Its not pretty but perfect for your snakes. If you can't house them all seperately you need to find a new home for them. Its a shame that you didn't research this more before the death of one of them but now all you can do is the best for the rest of them. We all make mistakes in the beginning and learn from our mistakes. Stick with it and good luck!

-Bill

Actually they were together for 3 years without any accidents. It all happened after i took them out to clean their half a room cage throughoutly and then put them back in the cage once i finished cleaning. I dont think they were lacking space, since they had a bathtub, a tree with thick branches pointing out at 2 heat bulbs, an 4 caves in a artificial big rock. But i guess that mistake was a first...

Regardless of how much money, time or space you devoted to the snakes, you still had a BAD setup. One snake per cage (properly setup) and everything would have been fine. I'm not going to go into detail on how to properly setup a ball python's enclosure. That's your job... a job that should have been done a LONG time ago.

I hope you learned from this incident and the other 4 snakes don't have to learn the hard way for you.
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www.cranwill.com

"Actually they were together for 3 years without any accidents. It all happened after i took them out to clean their half a room cage throughoutly and then put them back in the cage once i finished cleaning. I dont think they were lacking space, since they had a bathtub, a tree with thick branches pointing out at 2 heat bulbs, an 4 caves in a artificial big rock. But i guess that mistake was a first..."

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You still don't understand their husbandry needs. Five ball pythons and only four hides? Also, your set-up (no matter how big) sounds arboreal. These are terrestrial snakes. Yes, they will bask on a branch but they prefer low, dark, and tight spaces.

No matter how big the set up you have they still need to be housed separately. Your males will spar, your females (if not of adequate size) can become egg bound if they become gravid.

Really, you need to invest in either individual tanks or a rack system. Keep one of the snakes in your big enclosure if you want a display animal. Put the rest into a rack and you will notice a difference in their behavior and eating habits.

"Actually they were together for 3 years without any accidents."

This is the same argument that is used when advocates of mixed species tanks debate. Just because three years went by without any "accidents" doesn't mean it is okay. You should consider yourself lucky that you were able to pull off a three year stint with only one accident. Fact is, proper husbandry techniques would have avoided this altogether. Saying that you went three years without an accident and then decidiing to change is a lot like using heating elements (bulbs, heat tapes, etc.) without a thermostat because "no one's been burned yet." It make take time but it will happen.

It matters how the snakes think and feel! They want their own space, and they can't talk to you. . . you have to read their behavior. This incident is a major cry for help! You have probably missed others. I agree with the above posters: please separate them. They should also have underbelly heat, or a more accessable heat source than one they need to climb to; I have not heard or seen of an adult ball that was good at climbing and clinging to branches.

I am sorry for your loss as well. It's sad one had to die on you. It is true, we learn from our mistakes, and others' mistakes. The info on keeping reptiles on this site was not found out in a day. Lots of people had to make lots of mistakes to get to the knowledge of how they should be kept. I urge you to listen to the people here so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again. Also, a book on balls wouldn't be bad, or Ralph's care sheet, or NERD's. I find it interesting to read all you can about these snakes, knowing about them just increases their beauty and mystique! Good luck with the others.

Do more than one Ball share the same burrow in the wild? Probably, but yes, it's much easier to care for them and provide the proper husbandry if housed individually.

I highly doubt the snake was "constricted" to death, it probably had other issues which could happen to any reptile.
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Chad Bachman

np

Another snake that could have been saved by an owner simply reading a good caresheet...
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Astronomy Picture of the Day

My suggestion is that you listen to what the people are telling you because it sounds like they have a lot more experience. Most are breeders or long term pet owners who have done their research on how to care for their snakes. ONLY ONE SNAKE PER ENCLOSURE! REALLY!

NP
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Astronomy Picture of the Day