I love ball pythons. Always have, and always will. The ball python forum used to be a fun place to come visit every day for some nice pics of people's ball python. Recently, over the past 3 months, I haven't come in here that much anymore because all I see is pictures of morphs. Every frickin time I come here it someone saying "Hey look at this albino" and then it has 15 replies under it. Then i scroll down searching for a pic of just a nice, wonderful normal bp and can't find it. It seems like only the breeders have been posting in this forum now. Or poeple with some morph. Morphs are special when a select few people have them, not when every frickin person has one. And I wouldn't mind stopping by every now and then to see someone showing of a spider ball or whatnot. Just not every time I see yet another morph. It gets really lame. It's not special anymore that its been worm out but people keep postin the pics like they're something special. And what I assume has happened is that other like me, people who own just a simple normal bp, have sorta given up on posting their pics cause nobody really gives a crap about norms. The majority of people I must say own a beautiful normal, not a 3,000$ albino. So why is this place swamped with pics of them? It's time for the normal owners to seize control of this forum again and become the majority. I have posted many long strings of pics only to get one or two responses like oh those are nice. Then look right above my post to see someone who psted a morph getting 15 or so responses. I think it's high time people like me come out of the shadows now and start participating and showin off some normals. People come here for help with their ball pythons, and if their posts are being ignored because everyone cares about the morphs, how are they gonna get help? Same thing is going on down at the boa forum with all these new hypos and crap. Damn. where have all the norms gone? It just tiks me off to come here hoping to post about a normal or help someone out, then just get flooded with morph pics. Arrrggg, just my rant. I also feel morphs are being far too over bred and will soon become just as common as corn morphs, but thats a whole nother rant....
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My Rant, Please Read
Replies (77)
Hi - I'm sure that a lot of people who read this forum would agree with you, but as a (very proud) owner of normal ball pythons AND an admirer of morphs, I'd like to throw my two cents in. We still see lots of posts of normals, and some of those posts get lots of replies! For example, go to the second page of posts, and look for one entitled "OK Enough of the morphs, WHERE ARE THE AWESOME NORMALS? ...more..." It got something like 40 replies, not counting all the people who posted new threads of their awesome normals! And as for posts of normals that only get one or two replies, I don't think that there's any slight or insult meant by that - it's just that a new morph hatching (like Graziani's new Cinnamon Pastel X Pastel Jungle babies, or Ralph Davis' leusistic)is something that could possibly revolutionize ball python breeding as we know it - it's a very big occasion (as well as the culmination of sometimes years of hard work), so people really get excited, which generates more replies. And overall, this forum seems to be very welcoming to owners of normals (both new owners with newbie questions and established owners).
Sometimes it may seem that morphs overshadow normals, but in my opinion, they get so much attention because of 1) the very hard work and effort that goes into hatching a morph, 2) their potential ramifications on the whole ball python industry, and 3) the fact that many of them are really truly amazing! I hate to see a morph v. normal conflict developing on this forum, as it is the type of conflict that can do serious damage to the community of ball python breeders, owners, sellers, buyers, etc. After all, we should all remember that the stated purpose of this forum is: "messages or questions pertaining to all aspects and issues regarding the keeping, breeding, health, and conservation of Ball Pythons." If you truly love ball pythons, I would think that would include all balls, normals or morphs.
Just my two cents and my efforts to make peace - please don't flame me too badly.
I think this whole "morph" thing is just a fad. Remember a few years ago when people went nutz over cornsnake morphs? Now, nobody but the most dedicated hobbyists care about morphs, and everyone's switching over to ball pythons. Maybe in a couple of years, rattlesnake morphs will be all the rage.....
There's always people who want to breed their animals. Power to them, if that's what they want to do. I don't keep snakes to breed; I keep 'em because I like 'em. As any dedicated breeder of any kind of animal will tell you, it's not about the money, it's about the love of the animals.
I breed my own rats for supplementary snake food; not because I want to save money, but because I love spending time with my rats. (Yes, there's a dichotomy - but if I didn't love my breeders, then the babies wouldn't be healthy and happy. Healthy and happy food = healthy and happy snakes. It makes karmic sense to me.)
Frankly, I'd rather spend $100 for a good, healthy snake than $1000 for one who "might" have a particular genotype, that I could then breed with its littermates to produce pretty colours with genetic defects.
Don't think you a "love" for animals like you preach. You say you only keep animals and don't breed them, yet you breed rats? Why make the distinction? Especially for an animal higher on the evolutionary chain?
Hypocrite.
I think you're just being an A$$HOLE!! You're sick of people showing yet another morph?!? ...but don't understand why people aren't lined up with wonderful comments about your righteous normal? ...maybe because if they wanted to see what your snake looks like, they could look at their own damn normal ball python!! EVERYONE that looks at your pic on this forum has a snake just like yours!!
That was the funniest thing I have ever read! LOL. And soooo true.
Retep's post was...well.....I think we all know what it was...
That's Bull####!!! I have never seen two normal BP who look the same!!!
But getting back to the original post. I can understand the feeling. Not that I don't like morphs because most of them are really beautiful but I think normals are just as stunning too!!! And it isn't nice to see a lot of posts with pictures of morphs when your post of your 'normal' BP (who you love very much and think of as the most wonderful and beatiful animal) gets no posts.
I understand that the people that bred those morphs put a lot of work in it and are very excited. But I (just using myself as an example) put very much work and love in my BP as well. Maybe it is nothing compared to some of the breeders over here but for me it's my life. For me it's not so important how they look (I think they are beautiful anyway and I also don't have the money for morphs). They are just part of my family and I'm very proud of them.
Well it makes sense, and I agree that most people do indeed have normals. Then why is it the forum is dominated by jerks with albinos and such? Cool, ya see one you think it's nice. Second time it's nice. Day in and day out...It drives ya nuts. I own a norm, so I come here to see others with norms. See cages and so forth. Learn from others as well as help others. Instead I see yet another morph breeder/owner posting a pic. Just flooding us with "hey look at my pied". The aim of the forum has been lost. It's for learning as well as teaching. Not some morph photo gallery. Come one...It's ok if it isn't every other post.
Well said. It's time Kingsnake made separate forums for "Morph Colors" so the point of the forum can be regained. I see this forum as a place that people can get information on care and husbandry because they care for their pets.
No casual BP owners are buying $3000 morphs to interbreed.
n/p
I agree with both of you. So go ahead and leave and create your own BP forum that you two can dream in. You can dream of growing up and not being jealous. You can dream that maybe one day you'll get a morph and realize they aren't "bad".
So please go make your own forum somewhere...far far away!! And don't look back...better yet, don't come back!!!
This forum rocks...many people get questions answered and well given advice. Too many nice people in here for you two to ruin it.
Leave!!!!
Grow up and stop crying!!!
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Michael
>>Well said. It's time Kingsnake made separate forums for "Morph Colors" so the point of the forum can be regained. I see this forum as a place that people can get information on care and husbandry because they care for their pets.
>>No casual BP owners are buying $3000 morphs to interbreed.
Um. There's already a Morph forum. Not BP specific, but Morph nonetheless.
Personally, I love BPs. I love all 7 that I already have, hehe.
Now, my problem comes to this: I REALLY want to do this for a living. I could go work at a zoo, but you need a degree (usually), and, frankly, I can't afford the googles of thousands of dollars it would take to get a good degree. PLUS, I don't know of any college in my town that offers a Herpetology degree (if only I hadn't moved out of Austin, lol)
So, I figure, I'll make a one-time investment of a Pastel. It's Co-Dominant, which means I won't have to breed it back to its offspring before I get a morph (I don't like inbreeding, either). In a few years, I'll be able to sell some Pastels and (a few years later) SuperPastels. ALONG with normals.
My buying a morph is a way for me to ensire that I will be able to do this, and not have to take a 9-5 corporate slave-job.
I do LOVE normals' looks, tho. All the different kinds of patterns and everything. I love to take out my babies and just examine their different patterns while I play with them. I can't wait for the day when my first clutch hatches and I see little babies peeking out of their eggs, be they normal or morph.
And some Morphs just look creepy or ugly, IMO.
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-Irish
Email: animistdragon@sbcglobal.net
AIM: VoodooDragon137
YIM: [same as Email addy]
3.3.1 Ball Pythons
So, everyone that owns something more expensive than you is a jerk!!! I think they are just proud. To me, it really sounds like jealousy in yours and Nokinja's posts. Maybe you two can go and make your own forum, so we wont have to deal with your envious posts.
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Josh
My Email
I own a norm, so I come here to see others with norms.
Maybe it's time to go somewhere else, dude.
Retep is jealous of people who have morphs and he wants some attention. So make sure you reply to his pics and posts from now on!!!
But seriously, if you dont like the forum, then leave!!!!! I personally like seeing all of the morphs....Keep posting the pics of the morph guys!!!!!
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Josh
My Email
I think it's become more about making money than the pleasure of the animals. It's sick.
Same thing is happening with Leopard Geckos too. People that don not have the right to play God, playing God.
I think its just getting a little heated here for no reason, this is suppost to be a place where big name breeders as well as the person who has one or two ball pythons can come and share pictures and information..It doesnt matter if you have a beautiful normal or a beautiful Albino, its for the love of this creature not for anything else. Yes i know some of the big breeders make money off their LONG TERM/High Cost investments, but it took them time and everyone needs to remember that at one time even Bob Clark only had one or two snakes... So just because the big guys have had the time and money to put into there hobby it doesnt mean they are excluded from this forum it just means we should look on there new morphs and think wow thats cool look what there time/money/effort has given them.. And then think "hey if i invested 20 years and 100,000 dollars then think of what i could do" I love my normal ball python Larry.. he is worth much more than any albino or pied would ever be to me.. You know why because he is what introducted me to snakes and this forum and everything that i have is due to him, does it matter that he's a normal. No.. In fact my het for albinos and future albinos will never take the place of him, ever.. and i think thats what really should be brought forward in this forum.. Its not about your morph or my normal or his morph.. its about seeing a snake and realizing wow someone put alot of time and love into raising that snake... Who cares who has what morph... It should be all for the love of Ball Pythons... Just my thoughts... dont kill me for my opinion.
Sincerely,
Rose
Well, if breeding animals is playing god, then I would like to to be addressed as Lord from now on.....
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Josh
My Email
I'm not saying that their playing God from breeding, they're playing God by choosing snakes, breeding them constantly for different colors, selling the snakes when the "color morph fad" of the week goes out of style, getting new snakes only to pick and choose who impregnates the next in line. It's sick.
I'm not saying they dont "give care" of their animals. They do because if they dont, their profits go down. But they definitely do not "care" for the animal, in respect to not treating it like a pet, but more as an object to make, sell and buy.
Yes their animals are more as objects. Like a load of vread in a supermarket. Most really could care less about their herps if they weren't getting $5,000 a pop. No joy or care goes into them. Just cash. In this sense they are no better then those dispised importers that catch hundreds of thousands of bp's for the sole purpose of selling them. It's sad how they've lost focus, then they pester us with non stop morph pics to further the morph madness.
How can you say that the animals dont get treated like other pets like your own bp? Im guessing odds are they probably take evem better care of them because of there high value or just because they love animals enough to put that much into it. If breeders were into it for the money they would get out becuase the simple fact is that they have to manage there money to be able to get into the ball morphs. Heres a little something to remember what you put into something is what you get out of it.
You dont need to "get into BP's" to breed them... It's a matter of knowing the product so you can do your job so you can get another paycheque. It's the same as doing a job...You know what you need to know, so you can still get paid.
**DISCLAIMER**
Not every morph breeder is this way... some are, some aren't. It's the same way with anything.... Bill Gates was once a nice guy.
...
Some people that I know make good money breeding there reptiles, and they have a job they do this for fun. Ralph Davis does construction I believe he owns his own construction company, he breeds his reptiles for fun! http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/about/
You dont need to "get into BP's" to breed them... It's a matter of knowing the product so you can do your job so you can get another paycheque. It's the same as doing a job...You know what you need to know, so you can still get paid.
**DISCLAIMER**
Not every morph breeder is this way... some are, some aren't. It's the same way with anything.... Bill Gates was once a nice guy.
You're right, Bill Gates donates millions of dollers each year to many charities. What a bum.
Just my opinion
Matt
You dont need to "get into BP's" to breed them... It's a matter of knowing the product so you can do your job so you can get another paycheque. It's the same as doing a job...You know what you need to know, so you can still get paid.
**DISCLAIMER**
Not every morph breeder is this way... some are, some aren't. It's the same way with anything.... Bill Gates was once a nice guy.
Kingsnake doesn't charge you to post here do they? So where do they get their money? From breeders who sell 10,000 $20 normals every year? No. Take a look at the forum sponsors. If they didn't advertise and if they didn't pay kingsnake.com money, this place wouldn't exist. And now you go running your mouth because you only want to see normals?
I just have one question: Are you older than fifteen? And yes, its rhetorical, because I know the answer.
Last time I checked, ball pythons were not native to this country...
Last time I checked, ball pythons were not even native to this continent...
May I ask exactly how you think "normal" ball pythons arrived here for you to love and cherish...?
Perhaps they floated over on papyrus rafts that they carefully fashioned...
Possibly they drifted on the ocean currents...
Maybe a hot air balloon...
What about (surely not) the remote possibility (I can't believe it) that some of your "despised importers" brought them over.
Yes...believe it or not...without your "despised importers" you would not have a "normal" ball python to snuggle up to...and hug...and tuck in at nights...
Kind of a conundrum, huh? You would not have the object of your utmost love and affection ("normal" ball python) if it were not for the objects of your utmost hatred ("despised importers" ). Try not to lose sleep over it...I know I won't...
.
My thought exactly. Don't get me started on leopard geckos, lol. But you're right those breeders could care less about the snakes they own if they weren't worth 5,000$ . They have a snake for no more then a month then they sell it off. It's not about love for the snake, so much as love for the cash. Very well put.
You have no proof that they dont care for their animals... I would advise you to think before you start talking out of your a$$ next time....
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Josh
My Email
I am just a newbie to the forum, hell I don't even really own a BP, my sons do (but since they are still under my roof I also get to enjoy the pleasure of ownership 8-). But I do have to comment on this.
Reptep says: "People come here for help with their ball pythons, and if their posts are being ignored because everyone cares about the morphs, how are they gonna get help?"
I posted a question/concern this morning around 7 am EST, and within a half hour got three replies the first of which came from a breeder of morphs. That doesn't seem to me that people are being ignored of they don't have or talk about morphs. I find it very reassuring when someone who has experience can help the beginner and so far my first post has not made me feel as if people here only care about morphs.
Just my two cents...
RE-tarp (whatever) is just mad because when people post their fuzzy, out-of-focus, crappy web-cam pictures of their normal BP's crawling on their keyboard, no one gets excited.
And I wonder why no one gets excited. Maybe because we have all OWNED and bred these exact normals for the last 15 years and its nice to see some new color variations come along.
This thread (not my reply) is officially a troll.
I posted my first question here not long ago about shedding. I got lots of great advice, and it worked out well.
I love seeing the morph pics. I think if I just saw normals on here, I would think that's all there was, as a newbie. I was (still am) facinated when I found this forum, and the more I got into the reading, I saw amazing pics!!!
No one is forced to read this forum. it's a choice. free will. post freely, and most of us will continue to read, not only freely, but happily.
Muggle
Material Witness
You say that morphs aren't special anymore because everyone has them, and that you'd rather see pictures of normals. Then you go on to say that most people have normals and not morphs, and that is why we shouldn't be seeing morph pictures. That seems like a bit of a contradicting statement to me.
Well first off, if you don't like this forum or the people on it, then leave and don't come back. I see no reason whatsoever for you to be upset and pissed off at people who have morphs. Your post makes you seem extremely jealous of those who DO have morphs. And I'd be willing to bet that those who own morph ball pythons also own normals too, I know I do. Morphs are just something different to admire and share with other people, no one has ever said they are "better" than normals.
Each person has his/her own opinion about which morphs they like better or if they like normals the best which is fine. But there is no need for you to come in and post a message and be rude about it, just shows your jealously and immaturity.
And your comments about the big name breeders posting pics is ridiculous. Without people like Bob Clark, Ralph Davis, Dave & Tracy Barker, Kevin McCurley, Greg Graziani, the Sutherlands, Markus Jayne, Vin Russo, etc. (and all the others), the herp hobby/industry would not be where it is today. These people have worked very hard and put forth a ton of effort in what they do and you should appreciate it. The world of ball pythons has evolved so much thanks to these people.
So stop complaining and whining and stop being so critical and negative. If you don't like this forum or the people on it, leave or better yet, don't come back!!!
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Michael
Can i just say that for the bp owners like in britan, like theres only a few albinos over here so like most of us have normals. The morphs are swell but like, over here and all, we all feel a bit left out cos we only got normals.
You're not alone. Here in Holland are also few morphs. So most of us have 'just' normals too!
Naara.net
If you have mostly normals in Europe, post some cool pics!! Pics next to the Eiffel Tower, Big Ben, some castles Ok, maybe you cannot take your pythons out into the public eye, and that might be the best idea, keep em at home. OK, then pick out some cool looking normals and take pics of them! Some normals are very nice looking! I got it, take a pic of your normal in those 3 wheel English cars Nobody hates normals, or wants to belittle those with no morphs, but it should go both ways, the people who have albinos and spiders and ghosts should be proud of them, and post tons of pics.
Dave
Pic of my coolest normal
Here is a pic of one of my normals(need to get new pics, new cam comes tomorrow )
I agree whole heartedly... He's just a jealous little kid who doesnt want to save his money for the new carebear out he would rather whine and fight with all the other children who did there chorus and saved there money and went without ice cream for 3 months to buy that new carebear... dont whine if your not willing to put int the time to budge your money and buy your own damn morph...!
The Coolest Ball Python in the world.... Larry
Wow, Dayve, your normal looks SO much like mine...stripe near the end of the tail and all
Zoe
Yeah you're right it wouldn't be what it is today. Without Bob Clark and his first albino burmese python the burm would never be as popular as it is now. And thus the rescues would not be over crowded with 100's of 10 foot long burms that either end up dying or are euthanized. Or they go live in some crappy rubbermaid an an adoption place. Thanks Bob!
And without the others, God forbid we wouldn't have some over breen herps! Without their greed for cash tons of inbred genetically messed up morphs wouldn't be being shipped all over the world. Thanks guys!
^^ I agree.
Until then, pipe down, you sound like the little snot nosed kid who never got picked for the football game and then took your ball home so nobody could play....
Dave
Ow ofencive ok im gonna be defencive if i tred to get a albino here it would cost upwards of £1000 and like maybe all u rich b***hs can aford that but i cant so stop trying to be smart
What are trying VERY hard to say?
Dave
Not rich, just budget well.
im that thing i carn't speel that means i carnt spell it starts with D and seen as im a teen i don't got no bugeget and i carn't budget well anyway (Wake board)
Just because your a teen doesnt meen you cannot budget well or save your money and get some morphs, Im getting a nice 1300 pastel this week or next and im also and teen, no im not rich either I just dont blow my money then complane about people posting pics of awesome animals. Dave btw I love the pic of that albino.
That analogy is perfect..."the kid who never got picked in football and then left and took his ball home so no one else could play"...ha ha...sounds just like him.
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Michael
You go onto a sports car website, it has mustangs, Porches, Ferraris and the like. You post a pic of your Colt Turbo from 1986, and nobody posts any replies. So you post the following:
All you Porche and Ferrari owners are lame, not responding to my Colt post. I keep seeing pictures of nice sports cars, Ferraris, Porches, Cobras (on a sports car web site) but no Turbo Colts. What is wrong with Colts, they have 4 tires and a steering wheel just like a Porche...
Dave
That's an interesting point you make. How about this...
"I keep seeing pictures of nice sports cars, Ferraris, Porches, Cobras (on a sports car web site) but no Turbo Colts. "
---Oh, we have Colts. All of us have had Colts.
"Oh yeah? Where is it now?"
--- Oh, it's been sitting behind my house for 6 years, covered in rust. Sorry I have to go, i'm building another Porsche Convertable Morph.
You mom has brown hair and your dad has blonde. They have threee kids. Two were brunettes the other had red hair. You wanted red head kids so you have sex with your sister in order to get some reds.
A lil' messed up, but it sure gets the point across!
Are you speaking from experience? That may be how you would do it, your way of thinking, but I would just go find a nice looking red head OUT OF THE FAMILY Just a thought.
Dave
For your information I'm not some jelous kid. The fact of the matter if I ever wanted to get my hands on a pastel or an albino or whatnot it would be all too easy. I'm not jelous of them, I just get sick of comming here to see a bunch of morphs. I was hoping people would take this as a Q to start showin off some awsome norms. I could care less if i had in inbred morph or my kick@$$ normal. I really just wanted to express an opinion. So before you start trying to make an in depth psychological analysis of me get the fact straight. I'm not jelous just a bit pissed off. Don't judge me, or try and make me out to be a lil crying kid who gets picked last in kickball. Just see my statement, don't try to analize me.
Thank you.
ya know, i have been watching this thread all day and think it's a bit on the pathetic side. I am a newby, yes, i have a normal bp, yes, am i mad cuz someone else is showing off their morph...NO, they are all privileged to have a snake different than the rest, and have put alot of good, hard work into creating their perfect snake. to all that have accomplished this, congrat's...n hope you keep up the good work...as for the normal's...their kewl too, that's what i have and am proud to own him. alot of these "so called show offs" as you pertrey them to be...have given me great advice and help in my newly found hobby. So jus stop actin like a child and be happy for those who are enjoying themselves and proud of their accomplishments....
jus a personal thought, couldn't hold out any longer....sorry all
ya know, i have been watching this thread all day and think it's a bit on the pathetic side. I am a newby, yes, i have a normal bp, yes, am i mad cuz someone else is showing off their morph...NO, they are all privileged to have a snake different than the rest, and have put alot of good, hard work into creating their perfect snake. to all that have accomplished this, congrat's...n hope you keep up the good work...as for the normal's...their kewl too, that's what i have and am proud to own him. alot of these "so called show offs" as you pertrey them to be...have given me great advice and help in my newly found hobby. So jus stop actin like a child and be happy for those who are enjoying themselves and proud of their accomplishments.
Definitely a newbie there. And yeah lets all give those breeders and morph owners congrats for making the absolute "perect" snake. Because we all know those crappy normals are all inbred and genetically messed up. Oh...wait...isn't that morphs? I guess being a lil messed up makes them perfect. Who's to say that same crappy 75$ normal is not perfect? Try and explain that...idiot.
I'm acting like a child? Oh, pardon me. Did you get past 3rd grade or are you still in third grade? Hmmm, poor grammer, wrong spelling, and no capitalization. I guess all of us educated people are mere dumb children. Don't fool yourself. I made my statement. Agree with it or dissagree. I didn't ask you all to be my psychiatrist or call me a kid. Thanks though for saving me 200$ on a psychiatric bill!
i said nothing about being the perfect snake...everything is messed up genetically...even humans...you seem to be the perfect example there....i also never said anything about a $75 snake bein crappy or not perfect....i only paid 60 for mine...as for passing third grade, i was not trying to use proper grammer, spelling or capitalization, as for you, well, apparently you are just an insacure lil boy that is having a hard time dealing with people having something you want and can't afford...and that's that...plain n simple
so jus grow the heck up and don't post if you can't handle the heat...
I’m not much interested in the subject of this thread, but hey, at least it’s gotten a spirited discussion going that doesn’t have to do with those red ball pythons. But I had to chuckle when you (self-proclaimed as “us educated people”) took mmellott to task for poor spelling and grammar, but spelled the word grammar incorrectly. The very definition of irony. You don’t disagree, do you? Oh, by the way, you also spelled disagree wrong.
Cheers,
Miss Grammar
>>Definitely a newbie there. And yeah lets all give those breeders and morph owners congrats for making the absolute "perect" snake. Because we all know those crappy normals are all inbred and genetically messed up. Oh...wait...isn't that morphs? I guess being a lil messed up makes them perfect. Who's to say that same crappy 75$ normal is not perfect? Try and explain that...idiot.
>>I'm acting like a child? Oh, pardon me. Did you get past 3rd grade or are you still in third grade? Hmmm, poor grammer, wrong spelling, and no capitalization. I guess all of us educated people are mere dumb children. Don't fool yourself. I made my statement. Agree with it or dissagree. I didn't ask you all to be my psychiatrist or call me a kid. Thanks though for saving me 200$ on a psychiatric bill!
Thank you. typing online is not a place where proper spellin n such is used, it's the web, any way to shorten the word is acceptable. I should not have put in my two sense but this is jus a stupid childish thread that someone that doesn't understand the concept of owning a bp has created to make him self look more intelligent than the actual proven breeders themselves...that's it...i'm done...
You somehow think you know all of us...you accuse us of not caring for our animals or not liking normal ball pythons, just the morphs. I can guarantee you that the majority of these people on this forum care for their snakes very much or they wouldn't be here in the first place. And the big breeders care too, look at their facilities and quality animals. They care about the snakes for more than just money. How do you think they all got started?? No one just gave them a $20K snake and said here you go. They worked on acquiring new snakes and trying different combinations of genetics, all while still working and saving up money and putting all they had into it day in and day out.
Don't accuse us of not knowing you when you are the one who started this ridiculous post. You should think before you speak. Stop being jealous!! The reason everyone keeps saying you are acting like a kid is b/c you are. Grow up and move on! Don't like us or morphs, stop visiting this site. Plain and simple.
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Michael
Why do you keep refering to morphs as inbred? It's not like a dog, when you have to breed like to like in order to maintain purity. We're talking single genes here. People buy morphs, hets, and breed them to normals, or other unrelated morphs. There seems to be quite enough outcrossing going on to prevent the kinds of defects in other species you seem to be refering to (or else what would be your problem with line breeding...), especially with dom/co-dom traits.
Another thing, these genetic variations were produced in nature. Sure, people may be breeding different morphs together, but the original genetic material is all natural. It's not like they're being irradiated to produce genetic defects or something. And these genes don't appear to be detrimental to the health of the animal, in most cases.
I personally like to see different morphs, and though I don't own any, I'd like to. In addition to the beauty of the animals, the excitement of seeing babies hatch, etc, the money would also be a plus (of course). It would be great to have my hobby be self-supporting so that I can provide the best of everything I can to my pets. Why is that wrong?
Dear Pot...
Thank you for your clearly unbiased posts in this thread.
Sincerely Yours,
Kettle.
Are you saying that he was calling us black? I say this thread is officially a troll and we start posting 3x the amount of morph pictures.
...whether I am implying/stating that Retep appears to be the Pot calling the Kettle black...the answer is "yes".
Retep (a backwards Peter?) says "Don't judge me", and yet he/she appears to judge 95% of the people who keep and breed ball pythons...
In another part of this thread, our backwards Peter refers to "despised importers"...completely ignoring the fact that without importers there would not be a single "normal" ball python in the U.S.A. for them to snuggle with...
I agree with you...looks like we're well into Troll Territory...
Anyone got any Troll-repellant...??? Oh, wait...that would be ball python morphs...bring 'em on...
Wow! Doubly as good as I thought them to be!!
Ha ha.
I'm a newbie and would like everyone else like to offer my opinion. I think that you have chosen to get up on your soapbox and state what you think. Thats great, but like any other topic, you have to be prepared to receive peoples comments on your opinion. And to fight about it and tell them they are wrong because their opinion doesnt match yours seems wrong. A few things I noticed when I read this post.. I often post questions in the forums and get a reply all the time. Often through e-mail. Just because the post received no replies doesnt mean that person didnt receive help. So your jumping to conclusions right away. As for their being too many morph pictures, well, you have the option of not looking at them. I could never afford the piedbal I have been looking at, but I am not jealous, and I enjoy seeing posts of these beutifull animals. As for money making machines, I feel you are a little wrong. While its true some people see their animals as money making machines, i'm sure just as many not more see them as cherished pets. And put lots of love and care into them. Like everything else in life you get what you pay for. I'm sure most will tell you they invest a great deal back into their snakes. I read someone blaming a breeder for all the abandoned pets. Thats just wrong I think. After all, he didnt force anyone to buy his snake. Thats simply a sign of an unresponsible owner not doing research and getting over their head. I hardly see that as the breeders fault that someone bought a baby burm at the petstore and didnt research it first. Breeders should post their pictures here, they have worked hard for the animals they have produced, worrying about incubators, quality feeders, the health of their gravid females, proper housing and such. They should be able to show them off, and instead of lashing out at them, you should congratulate them for a job well done. As for the name calling, last time I checked this forum was for posting your opinions and thoughts. And to get angry at people for doing that is wrong. Lashing out at people over spelling and such.. who cares. Last time I checked Webster wasnt posting here! Just my two cents, I'm free to post, your free to ignore.
.
I don't think it would be such a bad idea to split the forum into Ball Pythons - Morphs and Genetics and Ball Pythons - Care.
That way, people can see what they want to see, and there's less risk of posts being neglected because of the 'oohs' and 'ahhs'...Plus, it would probably work better as a learning tool.
PS - How many people would pay $15K for a spider ball that's known to be infertile? Of course making money is part of the draw of morphs.
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-audri
Webpage/Pics
perhaps you could setup different boards for us. Check out:
http://www.boardhost.com/
You can set them up and they are very inexpensive. Anyone can do it. Let us know.
message boards
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RicK Denmon
I know I have something to say about all this, I'm just not sure exactly what it is.
First off, whenever a discussion comes down to name calling, intelligence insulting, and assumptions that may or may not be true about whomever you're talking, it's time for everyone to stop and take a deep breath before saying anything.
That being said, I also understand how people can get defensive when they feel like they're being attacked. I know I do.
About the Burm thing, breeders produced a lot because, well, that was the demand back them. However, I also feel like people who breed or import for petstores (and the petstores themselves) are irresponsible. There are already enough in rescue and at shows and such, and there aren't very many adults in captivity any more (what happened to all those petstore burms from years ago? Shouldn't, like, every household have one by now?) BUT that's not really relevant to this discussion, so to move on.
It takes a lot of work to breed Ball Pythons. Anyone who's ever tried knows that, lol. Proper conditions, housing, cycling, feeding, etc. So, to say these animals aren't cared for shows a slight lack of understanding of what goes into just BREEDING the things in the first place, much less to breed as many as they do.
How many "designer" (not found in nature) morphs are there, anyway? 5 or 6? (Offhand, I can think of Pewter, BumbleBee Spider, Caramel Glow Albino) That means the rest of those morphs (PieBald, Melanistic, Pastel, Striped, Albino, yadda yadda) do actually occur in nature. That's not really playing god. Now, personally, I have a problem with Hybrids (Blood Ball, and there's another I don't recall offhand), but that's all. Sure, choosing whom to breed to whom I guess could be considered playing god. But so is taking them out of Africa, putting them in cages and feeding them rodents not found in their native habitats, determining their heat and light with electricity, and trying to domesticate them. So, you have to choose between taking your pet snake back to Africa or stop complaining about breeders playing god.
The only qualm I have with big-time breeders is that they don't breed normals when there's such a high demand for them in the pet trade. If every breeder could only put some of their effort into breeding normals, maybe we could lessen the pet trade demand on WC or CH snakes. Personally, the petstore I go to is honestly trying to find a source of CB BPs to stock their store, but can't find anyone who can meet their demand. THUS they're forced (by customers' demand as well as a lack of CB BPs) to buy from an importer. Personally, I really wish I could go to a petstore and buy a healthy, eating, less stressed CB BP instead of going to a reptile convention or ordering off the internet (when I can actually find Normals).
In conclusion,
Snakes are neat! And these are just my opinions.
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-Irish
Email: animistdragon@sbcglobal.net
AIM: VoodooDragon137
YIM: [same as Email addy]
3.3.1 Ball Pythons
Look. All this arguing is crap. We are all in this forum because we have a love if not an addiction to ball pythons. Stop making yourself look stupid by calling out someone else because they have a more expensive snake. I own a normal, yes. That is because I am in college and cannot afford a morph right now. If i could, I would own one in a heartbeat. But I do agree that it gets somewhat old looking at all the morph posts on here. Why can't we have two divisions in the forum...One for normals and one for morphs. I'm sure the site wouldn't mind if it was requested enough. That way when someone like myself wants to look at some gorgeous morphs, I can click on the morph link. If i want to look at some gorgeous norm's i'll click on the normal link. How does that sound. I'll tell you it sounds a lot better than hearing all of you acting like kids over what type of snake you have. Congrats to all the breeders making these new creations everyday, and to everyone else keep up the good work...But please just grow up.
Now--- Pop Pop will throw his hat in. I read all the posts sometimes not the entire post but most of it. Why you ask? I have the time and like to see all types of crazy posting that comes and goes. The different looking normals that are posted. The beautiful morphs that are posted. To me this board is free to all who wish to read or not read. Some of you post see like your pants are all twisted in a wad. Enjoy the forum!!!! I do.
If you find a post that you find boring or stupid you can click out of it. Very simple...what I like to see and read is different to someone else. Just read and enjoy and perhaps respond. We do not need sub forums for this ... just click out if you get tired of looking at morph and or normals.....gee...
Why did not someone else think of it?
Happy herping.
RicK aka Pop Pop
Half normal looking with that pure white for a pied. You get both!!!!!
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RicK Denmon
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...free speech in the USA and all, so just express it without resorting to childish name calling, insults, and grammatical error checking
I too am mostly a newbie still, have owned a ball since March, and have acquired another one as well as an Albino California king. I have learned a great deal from answers to my own posts, and posts by others and their replies as well.
Personally, I like to see the color morphs out there. No money for one now, but the possibility of having one or making one someday is exciting.
Perhaps you ARE jealous, perhaps it is just a simple opinion that has gotten blown WAY out of proportion. Either way, as many have already said here before...if you don't like it, don't read/look at it....
Just my buck and a half,
Zoe
PS---Here's one of my FABULOUS normal pics, and also a site dedicated to my normals and kingsnake.
Zan's Den
sky.prohosting.com/protazoe
