Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here he is eating his fish. He took them both off of tongs today, rather than me waiting for him to catch them on his own, so I'm very hopeful that he'll take a pinky next time if I offer it.



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Lora

Lora, fantastic pics. First time I've seen boulengeri eating fish. Ya know I think Rhynchophis is part of the whole racer/ratsnake complex. They're from the right part of the Orient to have evolved from them. It's amazing thinking of one as a type of water snake though..haha. But I bet they change habits as yearlings. Good luck with the pinkies. Hope it works, and keep us posted TC.

Enjoyed the pictures. Keep them coming.

These are very interesting snakes. I'm lucky enough to be taking care of 2.2 adults for a friend of mine this winter while his house is up for sale. My interest in them is growing every day.

He got his to feed via tease feeding. Worth a try.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Chris, do you think they are anything like your Gonys? I wondering if they shouldn't be in that genus? TC.

Terry, I've got to tell you say the resemblance is startling. I've got Gonyosoma specimens and Rhyncophis specimens in side by side cages and sometimes I wonder if I've opened the correct one.

I think someone talented with photoshop could remove the rostral appendage and fool a lot of people.

Whether they belong in the same genus or not is an interesting question. I believe there will still be a lot of revisions in the future.

Rhyncophis are very neat snakes and I think they'll become popular. They don't interest me as much as Gonyosoma due to their calm nature but they are a nice change of pace for me, even with all their similarities.

On a related note, I honestly believe E. prasina will also become popular. Small, calm, arboreal, and green. People should love that.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Actually, I think prasina and frenata will probably both end up in Gonyosoma also. Someone needs to do some dna work with these guys. On another note, Gonyosoma oxycephala is a racer-like ratsnake. I wonder if Rhyncophis shows this type behavior?

TC

>>Actually, I think prasina and frenata will probably both end up in Gonyosoma also. Someone needs to do some dna work with these guys.

I believe they were already included in a study and they were not found to be monophyletic with G. oxycephala and G. janseni. I felt the same way, but at least one study suggests otherwise.

>>On another note, Gonyosoma oxycephala is a racer-like ratsnake.

I agree. Probably not a ratsnake at all.

>>I wonder if Rhyncophis shows this type behavior?

They can move around pretty quick but I've not seen anything like what I've seen from Gonyosoma. Gonyosoma are as fast as anything I've seen including Racers, Coachwhips, Mambas, Taipans, etc.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

>>>>Actually, I think prasina and frenata will probably both end up in Gonyosoma also. Someone needs to do some dna work with these guys.
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>>I believe they were already included in a study and they were not found to be monophyletic with G. oxycephala and G. janseni. I felt the same way, but at least one study suggests otherwise.
>>

Chris, the last study I've seen, or heard of, was Utiger et al. They left is in Limbo, if I recall, saying they couldn't place prasina and frenata, and I believe left them in the Elaphe. I'l have to look up their current status. Anyway, I meant that someone should do a genetics study which includes all Gonyosoma and prasina, frenata, and boulengeri, to see how the genetics falls out. I think one of the raps on Utiger et al. was that they didn't include enough species and could have gotten a bigger picture. Anyway, that's what was on my mind, heheh.

>>>>On another note, Gonyosoma oxycephala is a racer-like ratsnake.
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>>I agree. Probably not a ratsnake at all.
>>

It is hard to call them a ratsnake, but I believe there's a connection between Orthriophis, Gonyosoma, Coelognathus, and probably others that goes way back in colubrid evolution. SE. Asia is a very special place in the world

TC

Hi Terry,

I'm sure that's the same study. When I was posting last night I was think the study did not provide enough data to include them in Gonyosoma OR to elevate them to their own generic status.

Will be interesting to see how this all falls out in the upcoming years.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

I've tried tease feeding with a small pinks, but I've only had the snake 3 weeks, so I'm still getting him established here. He did show interest in a pink when I splashed it in the water next to him but when I tried touching him with it gently, he just moved away. His feeding response is definitely strongest in or near water. I haven't seen even the slightest defensive posturing (unlike most of my juvi rat snakes) so getting him to bite is a little tricky. Next week I'll see if I can scent a pink with fish and get him to take it, now that he's taking fish off of tongs. Sounds like they grow out of the fish phase once they get a little size on them.

He's a weird one though, those eyes- they're not round pupilled but slightly eliptical. I don't have enough information on Vietnamese snakes to even know what these might be related to.

Appreciate the reply!
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Lora

...excuse me for butting in, but just a note on feeding. I've had a few snakes I've teased by putting the slightest amt. of water in a deli cup and putting the snake in with the food item. You can leave overnight or in a dark place too until the snake eats or you give up. Once I got baby Elaphe schrencki anomala to eat this way, by putting pinkies in a deli with a little water. They seemed to like to get their food from water too. The red-backed ratsnake, rufodorsata, is of course semi-aquatic, and will feed that way. It would be cool to have a terrarium with a little moving water setup for the boulengeri and watch them come down from the vegetation, hang down, and snatch food items from the water, heheh

PS: You can also fish scent the water by putting fish in it first. That might confuse the snakes into eating the pinks. Later you can freeze the water and save it for another time too.

TC

No problem with you jumping in there!

I actually tried that method week before last, putting the snake in with a fish and a pinkie in a small deli cup with a little bit of water (enough to keep the fish breathing) over night. That was the method that the breeder, Steve Emerick, recommended as well. He said the snake would always take the fish and sometimes the pinkie. In the morning the pinkie was still in there, but the fish was eaten within 5 minutes of placing the snake in the container. This week I tried the tongs, once I knew the snake was in feeding mode. Next week, fish scented pink on tongs...

Thanks!

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Lora

Great watching them feed on fish.Thanks for posting those pics.Please keep them comming...Paul