Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...In the BP article in Reptiles mag, in the designer morph flow chart, in the year 2002 it says, in addition to Mojave x Lessor Platy as being a source for Lucy's, that "lemon x lemon" is also a source. Did I miss something or is this an error? And if it's not an error, what are these "lemons"? Certianly not lemon pastels. Thanks for any info!

Scott J. Michaels DVM
Serpent City

These are also a codom that produces a beautiful white blue eyed snake. The leucistic from this line was actually the first one hatched in the US by Vin Russo. Here is a pic of three babies I hatched earlier this year. They are easily distinguished from the normals in the clutch. They are very bright and have a white ventral surface down the whole body.

...please review for me:
1) what did Vin use to produce his Lucy's?
2) what codom are you refering to? (other than Fires, Mojaves, Lessor Platys)
3) what is the "lemon" in the BP article?
4) what male x female breeding produced your babies pictured? You're saying these are Lucy siblings?

Thanks!
Scott

I hatched these snakes from a "lemon" I got from Vin Russo.
I bred a "lemon" male to a normal female and produced three "lemons." It came out exactly as I was expecting, 3 lemons 4 normals. I repeated it with another normal female and got three more "lemons." If you breed two lemons you get normals, lemons, and blue-eyed leucistics. Every possible combination has been made and yielded the expected results-this is why I invested in this project in the first place because it appeared to me to be the most simple one--meaning breed this and you will get the results you are expecting.

This lemon project follows the classic codom pattern. The name "lemon" may or may not still be in use, but that is what they were originally called because of their nice yellow color at hatching. I think that obviously there is a lot going on with these other mix and match crosses (phantom, lesser,mojave)--and what is really going on remains to be seen.

Do you have any pics of these guys when they are older? I am interested to see the coloration difference.

>>I hatched these snakes from a "lemon" I got from Vin Russo.
>>I bred a "lemon" male to a normal female and produced three "lemons." It came out exactly as I was expecting, 3 lemons 4 normals. I repeated it with another normal female and got three more "lemons." If you breed two lemons you get normals, lemons, and blue-eyed leucistics. Every possible combination has been made and yielded the expected results-this is why I invested in this project in the first place because it appeared to me to be the most simple one--meaning breed this and you will get the results you are expecting.
>>
>>This lemon project follows the classic codom pattern. The name "lemon" may or may not still be in use, but that is what they were originally called because of their nice yellow color at hatching. I think that obviously there is a lot going on with these other mix and match crosses (phantom, lesser,mojave)--and what is really going on remains to be seen.
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

...I didn't recall that Vin called his animals "lemons"...thanks again. SJM

Could someone please explain what a co-dominant trait is and how it works?

Tracy beutiful animals! It's good to see you back on kingsnake. Hope your feeling better! Eric & Mike captive bred reptiles

THis is another name that we call them...........

Jared Horenstein

Yep, YBs.
-----
Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

yellow bellies?? YB x YB = Ivory, not blue eyed leucistics like Vin has.. if they are yellow bellies, they are not the same line that produces ivories or what? I have to confess, I think I'm confused now.. I thought I had all of this figured out..??

Please help me out

Thanks,
Bristen.

s
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
0.0.1 ball pythons (FELIX!!!!!)
2.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, Bear, and Tony)

Lemons are NOT Yellow bellies.
Lemons are NOT Lemon pastels.
Lemons are what Vin Russo calls the visible hets for a codominant form of blue eyed leucistic. Check out his website.

Vin must have VERY recently just named his het lucy's "Lemons" but why would he take a name "Lemons" when the name has already been taken and is already accociated/recognized as Yellowbellies?
I see now on his web site they are labeled "Lemons" that adds a lot of confusion so which is the "real" Lemon now?

Are we confused yet?

Leucistics are Leucistics; you have Blue-Eyed Lucy's, Black Eyed Lucy's and Pink Eyed Lucy’s, which should be seen in BP's in the near future as well.

Vin could go with the name Blue Diamonds to name his Het Lucy's at least that would make better sense, don't you think?

What I'm getting at here is what IF RDR called his Blue-Eyed Lucy's X name and MKR name there Blue-Eyed Lucy Y and then possibly other Blue-Eyed Lucy's emerge from other breeding yet to be known; well then we have a bunch of names referring to a white snake with blue eyes that are identical in appearance as the other.....go figure

Vin named a Morph that’s recognized as Leucistic but what he needs to really do is come up with a more original name for the Co-Dom form that produces those beautiful blue-eyed white snakes.

Agree or Disagree?

The way I understand this is the Yellow bellies produce IVORY balls and Lemons produce Blue eyed Luey's. If I am not mistaken Vin put two YELLOW Looking babies together and produced the BLUE EYED LUEY'S in 2002, Then Ralph did it with a totally different combo(platinum X phantom and so on). Vin named his het LUEY's LEMONS because of the HIGH AMOUNT OF YELLOW in the snakes that produced his BLUE EYED's. Thus the name LEMON BALLs. Ralphs already had the names because of the way the snakes looked. I could be wrond but this is the way I understand it to be. Thanks David

To the best of my knowledge Vin Russo never did name the Co-Dom form that produces Normal, Co-Dom and Leucistics.
Vin should name this Morph himself to make them more recognizable.

He consistently calls them lemons all over his website, so I would assume that's what he's named them.

Vin's are named Lemon balls because of the bright yellow and they produced HIS.....BLUE EYED LUEY's.... Ralphs BLUE EYED LUEY's came from something totally different than VIN's. The Yellow bellies came from Snake keeper and they ARE DIFFERENT FROM VIN's because Snake Keepers(yellow bellies) produce IVORYs. Ivorys and Blue eyes are two different morphs of a white snake or close to white. And now with all of the other combos producing the same blue eyed luey we have confusion. Just my opinion. thanks David

when Vin's "lemons" produce blue eyed lucys and "yellowbellies" produce ivories?
-----
Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

Yeah THANKS =P. I thought we were talking about YBs, but that's right they produce Ivories, not Lucies. Maybe someone got confused somewhere. All these white snakes, blue eyes, pink eyes, black eyes.
-----
Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

It is easy to get confused about this strange and confusing puzzle we call ball python genetics. Especially with all the hush hush secrets out there, you know, "I will tell you something I heard about such and such morph but you cannot tell anyone else" or "I'll sell you this snake for this price but you CANNOT tell anyone else what you got it for". It's actually quite amusing to me most of the time (although frustrating at other times
-----
Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

I thought that another name for the yellow belly was the lemon BELLY. Vin is calling 'his' het lucistics 'Lemons' And as far as I know they don't look that much like yellow bellies? Maybe Tracy or Vin could post a belly pic of the ones they've produced? Please?

Mark

>>I thought that another name for the yellow belly was the lemon BELLY. Vin is calling 'his' het lucistics 'Lemons' And as far as I know they don't look that much like yellow bellies? Maybe Tracy or Vin could post a belly pic of the ones they've produced? Please?
>>
>>Mark

I think somebody is assuming they are yellow bellies, but in my opinion it has nothing to do with yellow bellies.. but hey, what do I know? I'm just a nobody with a handful of ball pythons...

Bristen.

With all these lucys being produced they should be affordable in no time.