Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All,

I unknowingly bought two w/c female balls. Both showed no interest in anything for months (they were importated in gravid) until last night. I bought two gerbils (one male one female) in April but they didn't produce so I tried one last night. The snake devoured it so I fed the other as well. So the question is.... seems like thier hooked for now on gerbils so do gerbils take forever to breed (if ever?)? If in the short term I need to buy a few at a time, is it ok to house them together, I have read the posts on how this could sometimes result in bad things happening. Are hamsters any better for communities? Will w/c ball pythons hit hamsters just as readily? I have 1.1 rats going right now (they just produced 10 pups for me last week) and will take a couple more weeks before they are big enought to start tring to convert the w/c's. (I have two cb's as well that do take f/t rats so leftovers to them). Thanks for helping and special thanks to DemaK for answering my questions in the past and his helpful nature.

Thanks
Dave

>>I unknowingly bought two w/c female balls. Both showed no interest in anything for months (they were importated in gravid) until last night. I bought two gerbils (one male one female) in April but they didn't produce so I tried one last night. The snake devoured it so I fed the other as well.

You have my condolences. I have a pair like that too. And with a nearly 5# boy that is a lot of gerbils!

So the question is.... seems like thier hooked for now on gerbils so do gerbils take forever to breed (if ever?)?

They do seem to take forever and mine are not breeding well now so I am frustrated with them.

If in the short term I need to buy a few at a time, is it ok to house them together, I have read the posts on how this could sometimes result in bad things happening.

The only way I would house them together is if they were together at the store or are very young.

Are hamsters any better for communities? Will w/c ball pythons hit hamsters just as readily? I have 1.1 rats going right now (they just produced 10 pups for me last week) and will take a couple more weeks before they are big enought to start tring to convert the w/c's. (I have two cb's as well that do take f/t rats so leftovers to them). Thanks for helping and special thanks to DemaK for answering my questions in the past and his helpful nature.

IF your WCs will take Russian Dwarf Hams then they are much easier to breed then Gs or Golden hams and you might have a solution there. Along with scenting rats....hope you have better luck than I have.
Do be careful you don't accidentally switch your CBs to scented rats.
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Sonya

Thanks Sonya,

You mentioned buying the russian dwarf hamsters together... my pet shop sells gerbils together as well. If I buy a bunch of hamsters say equal males and females, feed off males as required then as I see the pups, remove them and the mother to a separate container to raise, would they "get along" for a little while? Even if I lose the first set of pups, the female will be pregnant again within days then I can isolate her and get the pups for sure then introduce the male she knows to get more when she has finished weaning? (i would let her wean alone since I would like to keep multiple colonies). Separating later is easy, getting them all pregnate while I continue to feed is the problem. If I keep all males together will they kill each other? Or do you suggest tring the hamsters first before starting the gerbil colonies? Thanks for your input. Remember, the more the merrier, information is power.

Dave

I'm not a gerbil or a hamster fan. I think I'd buy one gerbil and rub it on the rats you are currently raising. Of course then you'd have to pay the trauma conselor for the gerbil. "I don't know Doc, Every week he rubs dead rats on me."

DeMak

Thanks for this and previous help DeMak, these females are pretty old (about 3to4 lbs) when imported. If I have a large amount of used substraight from the gerbils (urine, ect) can I put the rats in the substraight to get scented for a couple of days? I come to the conclusion that if I want to breed these females within the next 3yrs I should just feed live.
BTW, your feeder idea worked great!
Dave

I've never had to scent, so I'm not sure if the substrate idea would work. Why not try it? Let us know what happens. My son's Savus are real picky. Sometimes I have to give them live rat pups. I pick the ones who haven't opened their eyes yet. This is not a popular option, but effective.

BTW, which idea?

DeMak

Yes your wire feeder for the rats works perfectly. I wanted a trough type system like you tried awhile ago but as with you they just pick it clean immediately. BTW the gerbils are for imported ball pythons, even worse to get changed over to rats. I'll let everyone know how things go with scenting rats in about two weeks. Thanks for the help.

Dave

I think if it were me I would get a couple Russian Dwarf Ham and see if the darn snakes will take them. If they do then go and get some and raise them.
One thing when breeding them or gerbils that I found is that if you separate the male or the prego females you may not get them back into the group. So I just leave mine together always. The disadvantage of RDHs is they are smaller. But they grow faster so there is that. I personally would try scenting. My male WC will, rarely, but sometimes take scented (heavily) rats. He got out of it during breeding fast and now I am trying to get him back on them. If you can get them on rats it would make life much easier....trust me, from someone who has raised Gerbils for three years now.
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Sonya

I have a couple of wild caught female balls that i got as adults a couple of years ago, that I feed gerbils to, but I had already been breeding gerbils for several years before this, personally my gerbils breed very well, and if given proper attention and if all there requirements are met they are very productive. But you cant keep gerbils in a large comunal breeding group like you do mice or rats.

Gerbils are social animals and cannot be kept alone, but for breeding purposes they cant be kept in large groups either, idealy 1.1 is all you need to an enclosure. Although I do have a couple housed at a 1.2 ratio. But anything over that is no good.

If you are introducing new animals to each other, it is best to do so in a split cage until they are used to each others sent (usually a week sometimes two) switch them from side to side a couple of times a day for a week then take the divider out, if they fight put the divider back in for a couple of more days and try again, do not leave them together without the divider until they cuddle up together to sleep.

I feed my gerbils LM's Vita-vitals Gold (less sunflower seed than most commercial gerbil foods and I still take out some of the sunflower seeds. Leave a small bowl of this in cage at all times, and I give a small portion of salad mix at night(no more than can be eaten in a few hours).

I also give my gerbils a nest box, and a couple of toys for climbing and exploring on and in. (I do not do this for my breeder mice and rats).

And gerbils usually like a little warmer temp than mice and rats I keep my gerbils around 83-85 F.

My breeding cages have the following.
Cage #1 - 1.2 gerbils
Cage #2 - 1.1 gerbils
Cage #3 - 1.2 gerbils
Cage #4 - 1.1 gerbils
Cage #5 - 1.1 gerbils

groups are left together at all times, never seperate the males as they help take care of the kittens and females sometimes get stressed with no male to help (also if you remove the male they will have to be reintroduced using the split cage method).And never introduce new animals to a group, because they will fight to death. and dont wory about keeping the males with the females although they may mate following birthing, the female will keep herself from becoming pregnate until she has weaned her babies.

Gerbils do tend to have to be older than mice to breed though usually 8 - 10 weeks alhough if the female does not feel ready she will not breed.

With the setup above I usually have 6-10 kittens born every month which is more than enough to feed 2 stuborn snakes.

As far as fat and protein levels of gerbils vs. mice its not that much difference, and besides gerbils are what ball pythons eat in the wild so........there natural choice of food can't be too bad for them.

But I caution everyone who reads this not to feed gerbils unless you have to, because balls do prefer this food and if they get it even once it will be hard to swith them back to mice/rats.

well I guess thats about it just my two sents worth.

snakedoc1