Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any chance my 15" 9 month old bearded dragon would accept a 10" mali uromastyx in his cage? The care is so similar...

The beardie is in a 4'x12" 55g cage. The Uro is in a 40breeder (3'x18" I believe).

Any hope? If not, I'll just keep them seperated. I'm trying to figure out where to put the malis cage as my brother recently redid his apartment and decided the mali no longer "fit with the sceme of things" (exact words). I've always considered this lizard mine (he's even listed on my pet list!), as I'm the one that purchases his food, hides, fresh substrate, lights, etc...as needed, as little brother doesn't understand the importance of a proper diet and proper heating.

What should the actual heat in the cage be? I've read up to 120 degrees for the basking spot and we've never been able to keep the cage that warm, even with multiple heat lights. Now that he'll be at my house, it'll be easier to adjust the lights as needed and swap wattages to get the right temp.

Right now he's eating mixed greens and some fruit once in awhile. He hasn't gotten crix since he was a juvenile. He got him as a 4 year old and has had him for two years. So we're estimating his age to be around 6. What's the lifespan? 10, 20 years?
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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

Most people will tell you not to do it. I however have my Mali, 12" Aegyptius, and my adult Beardie living together. As long as you make sure they have plenty of room(At least 60 gallons), and multi-level basking spot so they will both be happy it should not be a problem. Also, make sure the Beardie still gets crickets, but don't let the uro get too many. Possilby take him out when you feed the beardie. I know a guy that has kept them together for 10 years with NO problems. Make sure they get along before you set them up together.

So in the long run it is what you feel comfortable with.

Good Luck

Andrew

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2.1 - Rocky, Runako, and RoxyIII (my care sheets)

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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

The only reason it will become an argument again is if people make an argument about it. You will hear alot of ppl that will try to make great arguments about little points that are different in their care. As long as you have a nice big cage you shouldnt have a problem. Please people if you want to make an argument agianst me dont bring up points that other people have already brought up because it gets really annoying.

If you want to make an argument please dont bash me. In the end it is his decision.

there have been success stories of them living together but uros can be territorial and that big spiky tail isn't just for decoration.
as for the heating part, go to home depot or walmart and buy halogen flood lights. you may have to play around with the wattage but you will eventually get a good basking temp. he will also need a UVB light.
go towards the top of the uro mainpage and under sponsers there are several links and those sites have really good care sheets. deerfernfarm's is very thorough.
tell your brother he is a poo-poo head, ha ha.
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

Mali seems to be settling in well. I cleaned his cage, decor, etc.. (though it wasn't bad as I've been going over there regularly and taking care of the little beastie). He's got fresh food and water with some new decorations and new heat lights. I already bought the petstore variety before reading the post about the flood light. :/

While toying around with the lights, I also found out that rather than buy a new heat bulb or let me know to pick one up, he simply put a normal household light in there! Will that actually work in a pinch or were his efforts pointless? My BD has a UVB light, but the mali does not and never has, even before we adopted him. He's 6 yrs old and perfectly healthy.

He gets a calcium supplement on his food weekly. What would a UVB accomplish after 6 years? I've already done quite a bit of research after recently acquiring the BD regarding UVB, and there seems to be quite a bit of controversy whether it's really necessary when supplements are provided. I'm inclinded to believe it's really NOT as important as made out to be considering mali is 6 yrs old and going strong. I have also read that UVB/UVA is more important for juveniles (hense the 9 month old BD having it) due to their growing bodies, whereas adults don't have such a need for it.

I don't wish to start a flaming thread, god knows people on the BD board get their nickers in a twist over stuff like this, but I'd love friendly opinions with research to back it up.

Thanks again.
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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

well, some people use D3 supplements instead of UVB but that seems difficult to me. i am not sure about the no UVB thing. they would have it in nature, so why not in their cage too? i just thought UVB was a necessary step in helping them digest calcium properly.

regular light bulbs, not the flood light variety, don't produce a good heat spot on the ground so that is why i don't use them but i think they could be used in a bind.

you can use the pet store bulbs, they are just more expensive and i have never thought that they produced much heat but i have never used the MVB but ihear they produce alot of heat.

just read read read and read some more. there are alot of good old posts on this forum too. just use the search tool
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

Not the one I got apparently. I tried the zoomed powersun bulb once. It was a 160 watt bulb!!! and it still didn't get my basking spot hot enough without getting it too close to the lizard (they're supposed to be at least 12" away)...I had to get another heat bulb to supplement that and get the temps in the right area.

That stupid thing burned out in only a couple monthes. After that I just got a zoomed 100 watt basking spot, and a flourescent strip....and this setup produces way more heat!

But I haven't tried any of the other mercury vapor bulbs. That last experience left a bad taste in my mouth so to say.

The UVB vs. D3 debate *is* very controversial. I do use UVB and the very occasional D3 when I think they aren't getting enough from their lights.

If you're not going to go with a UVB light (or even better, natural sunlight), make sure to use a D3 supplement. You mentioned you are using a calcium supplement, but didn't specify if it's calcium with D3. So ignore this if you've already got it covered!
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Uromastyx Geyri (Joe and Arthur)
2.0.1 Uromastyx Dispar Maliensis (Tank, Turtle, and new neighbor Spike)
1.2 Anolis Carolinensis (Bowser, Leeloo, and Sprocket)
1.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Bruce and Sheila)
1.0 Betta Splendens (Mr. Miagi)
1.1 Felis Domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)
And several miscellaneous community fish

You said fresh food and water.Your not leaving a water dish in there are you?

and knowing where you're going with that; the humidity is fine and he's always had access to fresh water. Taking the water bowl away is not an option. It's a small bowl and he does drink from it once in awhile. Thanks for the concern though.
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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

I don't keep water dishes in my bearded dragon's cage or my mali uromastyx's cage anymore, because the beardie never drank from it and the uro always gets more than enough water from her greens. When I did have one in with the dragon though, there was never any difference in humidity than without it. I suppose if you put it right under a basking light, but that's not where I would put it anyways. With how most setups are setup (screen tops and whatnot), it's basically like a jerky maker anyways (to use a phrase from robyn)...just constintatly drying everything out more and more. I personally use dirt as my substrate, which I have to add water to a couple of times a week. When I water under the hides, it stays nice and moist/humid in there for about the whole week, which is actually quite good for uros as it sort of replicates what it's like inside their natural burrows...though not quite as well as a full dirt setup with 2' of dirt would, but I can't manage that currently.

If you want my opinion on the whole subject, I wouldn't put the beardie and the uro together. Their requirements are different enough that you would need a large cage (probabaly about 6' long, 2' wide, etc.) in order to let them have their own basking spots with the proper temps, and each of them to have multiple hide spots etc. Some people will do it anyways even if the cage isn't big enough. I'm not going to knock them for it if it works for them, but I would never suggest doing it because you have to make compromises from the care of one or both of the animals usually to get everything right. Plus there's always the possibility of them not getting along and whatnot.

Yes, there are "success" stories of people keeping mixed species together. For a year or two or even ten. I still strongly disagree with the practice. Keeping two UROS together can be difficult and stressful on the lizards. Keeping two species together who can't read each other's body language is exponentially raising the stress levels. So maybe they won't fight, if you're lucky. But both will be far more susceptible to illnesses and parasites (let's not even talk about sharing of parasites) from the added stress which will in all likelyhood decrease your pets' lifespans. Living in captivity is already hard on them. Mixing species makes it worse.

These are my views, but they are your lizards. Do as you feel is best, and good luck - and I don't mean that sarcastically.
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Uromastyx Geyri (Joe and Arthur)
2.0.1 Uromastyx Dispar Maliensis (Tank, Turtle, and new neighbor Spike)
1.2 Anolis Carolinensis (Bowser, Leeloo, and Sprocket)
1.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Bruce and Sheila)
1.0 Betta Splendens (Mr. Miagi)
1.1 Felis Domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)
And several miscellaneous community fish

I will just keep them apart to be on the safe side. I'd forgotten all about the BD getting crix nearly every day. I just bumped him up to daily crix, so it would be a real pain to have to make sure they were all eaten before mali could go back in there.

Not to mention the BD is much larger (I hadn't realized just how much until they were both in the same house!) and has pretty much free access to a bowl of worms. I wouldn't want mali to get picked on or start chowing down on worms when he should be eating veggies.

The other thread below still has questions throughout it regarding UVB and so forth, so please check in there and see what you think. Thanks!
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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

I noticed you said you just moved the bearded dragon UP to crickets daily. ?? A bearded dragon's cricket/worm intake is supposed to drastically decrease as it gets older. Babies should be fed twice a day, then as they get older, once a day, and then eventually, at about 1 year or so, only a few (maybe up to 10 or so) crickets every other day. Trust me on this...I've found out first-hand what too many crickets can do to a beardie. They often get spoiled and decide that, if they can have a lot of crickets/worms, they don't want veggies, which leads to problems in their calcium, phosphurous, and uric acid levels, which leads to kidney failure. My beardie didn't get to kidney failure, because we just caught it right in time, but since he was so spoiled, all he'll eat now is pretty much repcal pellets and crickets (which I hardly give to him anymore...he gets enough protein from the repcal pellets). Not only that, he only eats the red repcal pellets, which makes it very inconvenient and expensive. The only time he will eat greens and stuff is if he gets them by accident. I'm hoping after brumation I can convert him to a greens and veggies diet with crickets and stuff maybe once a week, but I'm not sure I'll be able to.

basically, an adult bearded dragon should have around 80% vegetable matter, and 20% meat. It used to be about 50/50, and before that a lot of people thought it was more meat, but now they're determining that they are living much longer with more vegetables and less meat.

I may have interperetted what you read though, so just heed my warning either way. It's not a pleasant experience, not in the least.

and she didn't know much about his care. From reading books and general knowledge I thought he should be eating crix several times a week at the most. He eats his veggies really well.

Upon posting this on the BD forum, people said at 9 months of age, he should still be getting crix every single day. So apparently I wasn't feeding him enough. That's why I stated that he was just bumped up.

He still eats his veggies really well and loves his worms, so all seems to be well.
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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

Okay, I was just making sure. Some people get the idea in their head that they should eat more as they get bigger (bigger animal, more food etc.), but really they'll eat the most when they are growing.

Just make sure that the beardie is still eating veggies, and if he/she starts to not eat the veggies and just eat crix, I would take the crix away until he/she ate veggies again. They have to keep eating veggies everyday at this point, because they'll need to rely on them much more as adults, and this is the time that it will be really easy for them to get spoiled on crickets, just like what happened to mine. When I had first bought him, he was around 6 monthes old and about 13-14", and he would eat his greens and veggies. I think he did the first day we brought him home actually. But then I kept giving him more and more crickets, because I thought that if he kept eating them, that's what he needed. Eventually he was eating so many crickets (which cost a lot on my part) that he didn't see a need to eat his veggies anymore, and getting them back to eating veggies can be extremely hard. I'm hoping that when he wakes up from brumation I can ween him off the repcal pellets and on to greens and stuff.

good luck with the lizards!

I havent been in this argument before but i do wish to settle it. Uros can take basking temps off 120-140. Beardies only about 105.(my gurl prefers 102)usually anything above that can cause stress and neuro disorders. Yes u can make different levels of basking but then the ambient temps are to high for the bearded.Again uros dont have that tail for decoration.(ive startled my mali and even though stunnted he wacked the $!?# out of my hand. Also from what ive heard malis have very powerful jaws. Another thing is u have obvious dietary discretions as one has about half its diet as protien/insect matter and the other only around 5% of the diet if that on a weekly basis. Also my mali loves peas and birdseed while my beardie wont touch anything but collard and other greens no veggies or fruits. Personally i think both species should have atleast 50 gal to themselves if not more, so this would mean anywere from a 90-120 gal tank also to get the right temp gradient.Yes in most cases they arent aggressive but also considering they have two oceans between them(pacific and indian)with the fact they are from different continents.U can do what u want but respect the fact that ur animals probably would prefer to have there own space and im sure they dont mind being alone. REPLY. I dare u.
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0.1.0. Green Iguana (Ziggy)
0.1.0. Bearded Dragon (Dina)aka Ms.Piggy
1.0.0. Mali Uromastyx (unnamed)(rescue)
1.0.0. Crested Gecko (Ilik)
1.0.0. Leopard Gecko (Kirby)
1.0.0. Veiled Chameleon (Diablo)
0.0.1. Eastern Painted Turtle (Piccasso)
0.0.1. Common Snapping Turtle (Spike)
0.0.1. Red Eared Slider (Yoda)(rescue)
0.1.0. Amel Corn Snake (Lattice)
0.0.1. Pixie Frog (Tank)
1.0.0. Chinese Dwarf Hamster (unnamed)
0.0.11. Hermit Crabs (unnamed)
0.0.2. Goldfish
0.0.2. African Dwarf Frogs (unnamed)
0.0.7. Assorted Tropical Fish
0.2.0. Dogs(Brandie & Molly)
1.1.1. Birds

Perhaps if you had read my follow up post you would have noted that I said the animals will be kept seperated.

Perhaps you also need to rethink your approach in ending a post. That's absolutly ridiculous to just jump in and say something like that. Grow up.
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1.0.0 Thoroughbred
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Corn Snake
0.0.1 Milk Snake
1.2.0 German Shepherds
0.2.0 Cats
0.1.1 Birds (Conure and Cockatiel)
1.1.0 Rabbits
4 Fish tanks (SW and FW)

Didnt mean to come off like that and it wasnt aimed at u i was just stating the facts and that there is no way anyone could justify against them. That was sorta stupid but there alot ppl who dont relize it and think yay now they have a friend or w/e is going on in there head it was just an eye opener for the ppl who arent as informed about there animals. Sry if i offended u with that ending but just pisses me off sometimes when ppl(not u)dont consider all the aspect besides when they introduce there animls that they dont fight and they think its ok.
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0.1.0. Green Iguana (Ziggy)
0.1.0. Bearded Dragon (Dina)aka Ms.Piggy
1.0.0. Mali Uromastyx (unnamed)(rescue)
1.0.0. Crested Gecko (Ilik)
1.0.0. Leopard Gecko (Kirby)
1.0.0. Veiled Chameleon (Diablo)
0.0.1. Eastern Painted Turtle (Piccasso)
0.0.1. Common Snapping Turtle (Spike)
0.0.1. Red Eared Slider (Yoda)(rescue)
0.1.0. Amel Corn Snake (Lattice)
0.0.1. Pixie Frog (Tank)
1.0.0. Chinese Dwarf Hamster (unnamed)
0.0.11. Hermit Crabs (unnamed)
0.0.2. Goldfish
0.0.2. African Dwarf Frogs (unnamed)
0.0.7. Assorted Tropical Fish
0.2.0. Dogs(Brandie & Molly)
1.1.1. Birds