Reptile & Amphibian Forums

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IF (that's a big IF) they are compatible individuals, you could keep a trio in there if you have lots of climbing stuff and several hide areas. My three are in a similar size, except it is deeper (the 24 is 36). They all sleep together in one hide most of the time but they have options to be elsewhere if someone is grouchy. Might be better for a pair.
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Lucy
www.smalldragons.com

Thank you very much! My understanding is that I wouldn't want two males, but either a breeding pair or two females - correct? I have a 3 month old right now, but since I don't know gender I'm nervous about buying a cagemate for fear of ending up with 2 males. I do have the option of buying the babies mom - at least then I'd know I wouldn't end up with two males. My only concern is if the baby turns out to be a male and then I'd have a breeding pair - but a mom and her son. I know with snakes that's not a concern. What about with these guys?
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1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
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1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legalos"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
1.0 Crested Gecko "Willow"
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

Sexing by manual eversion of the hemipenes(or lack there of) at three to four months of age. If you take your skink to the vet, or a pet store, they would probably do it for you. However, a crushing like trauma can result from this procedure, so it is best if someone with experience with sexing reptiles in the manner performs the procedure. You can also post a picture on this forum of your skink. The skink needs to be lying flat on its stomach, and the photo needs to include the body and head. THe photo needs to be taken from above. This photo can be used by some members of this forum to sex the animal. jrbl

Great! She's only 3 months now, but I'll try to get a good pic. I'll also check to see if my vet would help me as well. I thought perhaps they had to be older. So visually speaking - what are the differences between a male and female?
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1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
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0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

In adults, the males are generally more slender, with wide "blocky" heads, and large jaw muscles. Females usually have longer and more narrow heads. Females usually have fatter bodies.

SEXING:

Probing with this species is almost always inconclusive and uncomfortable for the Corucia in question. Most likely the person will recieve an Extermely painful bite!!!

Head size if one has seen MANY skinks can be judged somewhat. The female tends to have a smaller, narrower head. This can be somewhat vaque by itself. The C/A ratio seems to a little better solidify this with the comparison to body girth (side Diameter of head over side diameter of body girth) Check previous posts for details. If I understand it correctly, over .77 indicates a male and under .77, a female. A male has generally a more streamlined body.

I believe Justin posted an idea using a known male shedded piece of skin and putting it in with the unknown skink(s). If Tail twitching and aggressive tendences commense, this indicates a male.

Circulus (There's that term again!) Establishment:

One male only can be set up with generally one to two females.
It is possible to do more females or establish (I don't know why)a large group of females. With the dimensions described, 3 at the max should be attempted to reduce stress. If 2 females to a male are set up, It could go either way. The male may breed with both females readily or may tend to breed only with the alpha female and keep the beta female in reserve.

Do more research in addition to this advice before you jump in.

Best of luck.
Tane

I should add that if large female groups or a attempted Circulus of more than 2 females to one male tend to fragment into splinter groups usually.

Tane

I'm a little confused about the C/A ratio. What/how do I measure, etc? At what age can I do this and what about trying manual eversion of the hemipenes (not me, my vet)?

Thx
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1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Bredl's Carpet Python "Strider"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legolas"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
1.0 Crested Gecko "Willow"
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

Hemipene eversion is a painful (at the very least, uncomfortable procedure which is near impossible with this species.

Your best bet is using a combination of external methods combined with behavioral observations.

Hopefully, one day DNA testing will be available.

The C/A Biometric ratio presented on this forum by Jess and Brian compares the width across the head divided by the width of the body diameter (body girth based on skeletal structure). It is a ratio so as long as you measure apples to apples it doesn't matter if it's in inches or millimeters as long as both components are the same unit. Above .77 indicates a male, Below .77, a female. Use this with other methods to best confirm what you have.

Tane

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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Bredl's Carpet Python "Strider"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legolas"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
1.0 Crested Gecko "Willow"
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

So what is the history/story behind the C/A ratio method? How did it come about and any statistics as to how accurate it is?

What are some behavioral clues as to gender?

Is this a good picture to try the C/A biometric ratio method with? It's the best I could get from the little one.

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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Bredl's Carpet Python "Strider"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legolas"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
1.0 Crested Gecko "Willow"
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

A reference made on page 5 of the skink forum on March 24, 2003 from Jess, B to Brian-SFCRC states that it was his ratio. I didn't look in the old files though. On the search engines, I see many references linking the C/A ratio with the Southern Florida Corucia Research Center. I have seen references that this is a good guide but should be combined with other methods for a more determinate result.

See again my previous posts and other posts on the skink forum as to behavioral clues. Males will invariably fight and a defending male will twich a tail similar to an angry cat. DO NOT keep males together! The loser male will have toes bitten off and will recieve severe lacerations in the hip region.

On your picture and age can affect the C/A due to disproportional growth (The tail grows at a different rate with a neonate). Your picture by the C/A reads .88 which would be a male.

Tane

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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Bredl's Carpet Python "Strider"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legolas"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
1.0 Crested Gecko "Willow"
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.0.1 Monkey Tail Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"