Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A neighborhood child found a box turtle on his doorstep and brought it to us because we have an RES. The RES 'belongs' to my son; therefore, my daughter insists that the box turtle is 'hers.' I am aware that *I* am the one who will be caring for the needs of the turtle, and am willing to do so.

Turtle shell is 3 inches long. Looks very healthy, active and alert, not shy, eyes clear, no noticeable lumps on skin or breaks in shell or any other signs to worry about. A reptile vet is available in the area should his services be needed.

Current habitat is a 45" plastic wading pool with a 20" clay pot lain on its side, with about half that pots' worth of clean potting soil inside it. (Okay, so it's spilling out, but it's mostly inside the pot.) I have not moistened this soil yet, but plan to do so to help maintain a humid space in the turtle's environment.

I have a UVA/incandecent bulb in a clamp fixture for UVA/heat. Temperature to my hand on the floor of the enclosure under the light is comfortably warm. Also mounted to shine in the same space is a fluorescent UVB which used to belong to the RES. (I got him a combination UVA/UVB fluorescent today.)

Climate in the house at this time of year ranges from high 75 degrees Farenheight in the day time to lows about 10 degrees warmer than whatever is outside (currently outside night temperatures range between 40s-50s: we keep getting warm spells between our cold spells). I do not plan to heat the house this winter except for the fire place in the livingroom during the daytime.

We've had the turtle about 2 and 1/2 weeks now and my chief concern is that s/he doesn't seem to be eating. I've tried leftover thanksgiving turkey, pomegranate seed, defrosted collard greens, turtle sticks (from the RES), crickets, cat kibble. One of the crickets disappeared, but I don't know for sure if it was eaten or got away. Today I noticed that finally the cat kibble was missing.

I'm torn between worrying that s/he isn't eating, or figuring that s/he is preparing to bromate and isn't eating because s/he isn't supposed to be eating right now. I have noticed that I can't find any earthworms or pillbugs outside when I've gone searching, so apparently nature is getting ready to wind down for cold weather, even if it isn't as cold as more northerly climates will experience.

So my key question is, how much food should I be supplying the turtle in order to satisfy it's need for food without needing to throw away wasted food because I gave more than it needed? Right now I'm mostly feeding it out of my pantry, and while I don't begrudge it any food that it may need, I don't want to waste any by having it go uneaten, either.

I did forget to mention, but did not forget to supply, a margarine tub with the sides cut low filled with a constantly-replenished supply of clean water. Food and water dishes are located on the opposite side of the 'pool' from the light spot.

The turtle does spend some time basking in the hot spot, and also spends a lot of time (more lately) tucked tightly in the dark, cool crevice under the clay pot. The turtle seems to prefer to hide here, rather than digging in the dirt.

Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.

Two suggestions:
1. Get some earthworms from a bait store! Few carnivorous turtles can ignore a nice juicy earthworm. Once s/he gets started eating, s/he will likely find some other foods interesting. I'd go **very** light with the cat food though, too much fat.
2. Bring one area, near the UVB bulb, up to 85F during the day (temperature fluctuation is natural for night temps). I like the ceramic heat-emitters, which produce no light, just heat. Be sure to get a (brooder) lamp with a ceramic base (not plastic) because of the heat produced. This provides a temperature gradient so the turtle can decide what temp s/he prefers.

Setup sounds good!!! With a bit higher temp available and longer day-time hours (12-14), s/he may be less apt to brumate.
Yum, yum, those juicy earthworms!!!!
Other good sites with GREAT info,
http://www.boxturtlesite.org/bxbook.html
http://aboxturtle.com
http://www.chelonia.org/

Should I be trying to prevent the turtle from brumating, or allowing it? Right now I've got the lights on a timer set for sunrise and sunset, which around here at this time of year is 7 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.

On the whole, I'd say, Keep her/him UP! Simply because brumation takes considerable preparation (empty gut for 2-3 weeks) and then constant temperature for couple of months.
Should you decide to keep him/her up, I'd lenghten the daylight hours to 12-14. Of course, always keep hydrated!

Others' opinions will vary...

Good luck!

>>On the whole, I'd say, Keep her/him UP! Simply because brumation takes considerable preparation (empty gut for 2-3 weeks) and then constant temperature for couple of months.

I'll offer a different opinion (not saying either is "more correct" ):

"Don't try and fight it, baby." Let the turtle cool off for a month with no lights, but letting it soak once a week. This may be enough to "trick" it into thinking it's received sufficient winter rest, and then when you warm it up and put the lights back on a normal cycle it'll start eating.

Even if you didn't lower the temps, the turtle should be able to go a month or so without eating without significant weight loss (but you'd have to monitor the weight).

I do agree that you should ensure the digestive tract is empty before cooling the turtle.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

I came back to report that keeping the lights on longer isn't going to be enough: the temperature under the heat lamp is 85 degrees, but unless I'm in there rearranging things, the turtle insists on finding the coolest, darkest spot s/he can and STAYING there.

I did pick it up and place it in the water dish, whereupon it looked at me for a minute, then bowed it's head under water for 1-2 minutes, then crawled out and went back in it's "hole."

Chris, you make it sound fairly simple. Do I not need to worry about providing it with something to bury itself in? It has potting soil and coconut shells & etc. but seems to prefer to just go hide behind the clay pot. Will that ambient temperature (unheated) frequent soaking be enough? Do I simply withhold food but keep the lights on and let the turtle decide?

What I'd really like to do is keep it healthy through the cold season and then release come spring. After reading and looking at everything you guys are doing for your turtles; I simply can't measure up. I live in a trailer park and am situated in such a way so that all 4 sides of the home are visible from the street. Any enclosure or pen I attempted to build would be nixed by the management and/or attract the (probably unwelcomed by the turtle) attentions of all of the neighboring children.

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

>>I did pick it up and place it in the water dish, whereupon it looked at me for a minute, then bowed it's head under water for 1-2 minutes, then crawled out and went back in it's "hole."

The turtle will know how much water it needs. My 3-toe will stay submerged for 10 minutes sometimes--and that's during the SUMMER. Last weekend, it spent the entire night (as far as I know) submerged in the cold room where the animals are for the winter.

>>Chris, you make it sound fairly simple. Do I not need to worry about providing it with something to bury itself in?

The advice I offer is based only on what works for my two turtles (1 3-toed, 1 ornate) and others' techniques may differ.

What I do to brumate my turtles is put them in a small (shoebox size) container with CareFresh (recycled newspaper pulp), misted to elevate the humidity, and then I put the box in my garage. I take them out once a week to soak them and weigh them (to monitor for any abrupt weight loss, which would make me heat them back up and terminate the cooling period; but that has never happened). My 3-toed actually GAINED weight last winter (must've drank more water), and the amount of weight lost is usually just a couple of percent of body weight for the 6 weeks or so I cool them off.

>>What I'd really like to do is keep it healthy through the cold season and then release come spring.

For another opinion, though one you didn't solicit: releasing animals held for this amount of time is generally frowned upon. It may be illegal in your area, and is not a good idea due to the possibility of introducing pathogens to existing wild populations. Are you certain the turtle was a native, and not an escaped pet?
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

I expect that it really was a native. A friend of my son's brought it over one morning, saying he had found it on his steps. He thought we should put it with our other turtle (RES) but I knew better than that! So my biggest concern with putting it back where it was found, is that it was found in the middle of kid territory & I'm not confident it won't be picked up again by someone who won't do the research.

I've been told that if they're displaced in the cool season they go looking for their spot & will keep going until they either find it again or they die, and that it would be better to release into new territory in the spring. There is a large area of undeveloped woods bordering the trailer park. I don't know if it came from there, or from the new housing development going in down the street.

If I keep it, I won't be able to keep it outside, though I may be able to take it outside under close supervision to experience weather/etc. (When the weather is nice again, that is.)

Thank you for taking the time to work with me on this.

Will that plus ambient temperature (unheated) plus frequent soaking be enough?