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Thinking About Creating a Dart Frog Viv, any advice?

seablazer Dec 02, 2004 10:02 PM

I have an empty 30G aquarium and was thinking of creating a dart frog vivarium since I was always interested in them and have a serious case of ETS (Empty Tank Syndrome)....

Anyway, my budget is limited to about $400 for the setup itself, and I would like to set it up at least a month in advance of the next White Plains reptile show (Mid-January)... I have been scanning through the Black Jungle website and am just perlexed at how many options there are to go with design of the vivarium. I was originally looking at installing a fogger that would run every few hours for 15 minutes or so for humidity, but now I've seen that installing a heater in the bottom of the vivarium with water can better increase humidity?

Also, the room they will be kept in fluctuates between 60-75 degrees depending on whether the windows are opened or closed, what is the lowest temperature allowable before you start running into problems with Darts?

If anyone can give me some direction, I'd be very thankful... I don't even know what frogs I plan on getting, I really just want to get the tank setup and running. Would like it to be AS CLOSE to realistic as possible. All help will be greatly appreciated!!!

I can't wait to get this project off the ground.

Replies (3)

slaytonp Dec 03, 2004 07:33 PM

There are so many options that work, and most all can be done for well under $400.00. I have several types of set-ups and think I prefer the ones with false bottoms and falls/waterways. There are a lot of web sites devoted to building a false bottom. In any event, you will need a drainage system, the most simple being a gravel bottom to which I add activated charcoal, although this may not last long, separated from the substrate by someting like garden weed liner and siphoned out from one corner manually with an aquarium air hose whenever the water builds up.

The last few I've built have been false bottoms supported with "egg crate" or similar material on pillars of pvc, cut about 2 inches shy all on sides. I then purchased a plastic food-keeper dish for the pool portion that holds smooth rocks, which contains the waterfall pump and tubing to the top of the falls. This is set into a cutout portion of the egg crate. These are punctured around the sides (a heated ice pick does this trick) in order to allow the rest of the water in the false bottom circulate into it, while contining the smooth rock so it doesn't scatter throughout the entire bottom. I attach some plastic garden edger around the outside of the egg crate so there is space around the sides of the tank that can be filled with smooth pebbles or other decorative gravel to hide the inner portion of the false bottom. Falls can run over cork bark, rock, or whatever you plan. Any splashing outside of the dish for the pool is returned to the false bottom through the substrate, so you don't have to worry about your pool dish running dry. Every so often, I siphon out most of the water and replace it--again from a simple aquarium air hose tube (and syringe to start the process) sunk to the bottom on one back corner. The falls, a tight fitting hinged glass lid and water splashed from the falls keeps the humidity above 80 all the time. There are many more high tech, better automated things you can do, but I like to keep it simple and relatively cheap. For the background, I have done various things, but one thing I like is a cocoanut fiber matt that comes in rolls) siliconed to the back. Any cork bark, pressed cocas panels (expensive, but I love to use them when possible,) can be siliconed to this and filled in with long fiber brown sphagnum moss, since cork bark is never quite flat. Epiphytes such as bromeliads grow great on this. You can just support them initially with bamboo skewers until they send aereal roots into it.

The substrate for growing terrestrial plants can be anything from an organic jungle mix, organic composte, milled cocoanut fiber, sphagnum moss, or a mixture of these. Don't use any potting soils with fertilizer, perlite or vermiculite. The perlite will get into your waterway, foul the pump, and vermiculite sticks to the frogs and just isn't necessary. Some vermiculites that aren't certified to be asbestos-free may contain asbestos, but that's not an issue unless it is airborn, which it wouldn't be in a damp terrarium. In any event, it has other drawbacks. Fertilizers of course would contaminate your water with nitrates and aren't necessary for good plant growth in a "semi-closed" system that is intended to become more or less "biologically balanced." Most tropical plants grow enthusiastically in a terrarium. My intial errors were to "overplant," and not allow enough open spaces.

The last few I've done, I've added a layer of small, smooth aquarium pebbles on top and spread Java moss over this. This gives the frogs a nice soft mossy surface to hop around on and keeps the soil from clinging to them. Homer turned me on to Java moss initially, and I now grow it in my aquarium section of the paludarium where it is a constant source of supply. (It grows under water or on land.) I keep it trimmed away from the pools because it will grow down into the water and clog the pumps.

These are just suggestions that have worked well for me, and certainly not the last word on vivarium building.

Your room temperatures sound better than mine, although 65 minimum is recommended. I don't know what kind of heater you are talking about, but I've had a couple of bad experiences putting under the tank heaters under the tank. In two instances, the heat has scortched the stand the vivarium was on. I do have some reptile type undertank mats pasted on the back of a few of the smaller tanks, just behind the waterfalls, and plug them in, in especially cold weather when the house temperatures may get too low. Whether they actually do any good or not, I frankly don't know. The ideal situation would be a submersible heater with a thermostat in the false bottom, but how long it would last and how you would tell when it failed, I don't know. Replacing it would be a PITA.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Homer1 Dec 03, 2004 10:47 PM

If you already have a tank, a $400 budget can leave you with a lot of extra cash and a nice looking tank, in my experience. However, I would not use an ultrasonic fogger, nor would I use a heater unless your room temps get really low. I, too, thought both were going to be necessary when I set up my first tank, but I never use the heater, and I never bought a fogger.

The waterfall in my tank keeps it at about 80%, as Patty indicated, even though I have screen vents over the front of my tank.

Advice? Definitely have a good fittng glass top cut. Using the channel hinges to give you a flap to raise is nice, as well.

I personally recommend compact fluorescent lighting, and you will probably want to use some fans in the hood to cool off the bulbs.

I also like the false bottom setups. You can see how I did mine at http://www.frognet.org/gallery/False-Bottom-and-Waterfall-Assembly . I probably need to update some pics there.

Look at all the pics you can, and then just go for it! It really isn't as complicated as it looks.

All the best,

Homer
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Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

slaytonp Dec 04, 2004 06:46 PM

I have tried the ultrasonic foggers, and found them to be a pain in the butt. They mostly spew water all over, empty the container after 15 minutes or so, and then crud up after the first few uses. They don't work well with distilled water or at all in deep water. I've also heard that they can theoretically zap the frogs. There are I believe, other kinds of foggers that fog from the outside, but I've never found these. I seem to recall that someone built one. I use the Tropic-air humidifiers for a couple of my tanks. These just bubble air through water with the aid of an aquarium air pump. They just give a little more air circulation.

I've used various kinds of lighting, mostly just aquarium strip lights set right over the glass top. The bet is one in which the rheostat is separate from the canopy so they don't add a lot of extra heat. If you live in a hot climate, the regular ones with the rheostat in the canopy might cause overheating problems, but it's pretty cool here so I've never experienced this. The best in my experience is a fluorescent double grow light set up I originally had for starting seedlings. These are adjustable and hang by chains from a rack above the tanks. I had purchased this some years ago from Parks Seed Co., and they were very expensive--I just adapted them to some frog tanks because they were there and not being used.

Every one of my losses except for one has been from a poorly closed top, or one that the plastic flap failed to close securely around an electric cord for the pump. You really have to watch this carefully. It's amazing what these guys can get through.
-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

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