Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw your ad on the classifieds and just wanted to know if you produced these or not. I found it interesting that this one in particular already had interband lightening which doesn't show up until later in Blotched, Goini, Apalachicola, etc.

Do you have any pics of the parents? Thanks.

Here's one of the "blotched" you have listed.

And here's an aberrant Florida King I hatched out this year from a WC FL King.

Kind of look like twins don't they.

Sean, the first animal pictured is from the first clutch that hatched in July. That particular animal originally had black blotches, but has shed 5 times since. The speckling is coming in quite fast on a lot of them and at first, I tried to keep them on a maintenance diet. Since I've moved into a new house and have the means of feeding more often, they are fed 1-2 times per week now. The pics were taken about 2 weeks ago. The male used was a Lemke line high orange and the female was from Jim Brumley at Exotic Arc Reptiles. I don't own the male, and will have to wait until spring to get pics of him. Here's a pic of the female.

Brandon Osborne

Man she is awesome! BTW I'm very happy with the female I picked up from you last month. As for the variation of your clutch, I bred captive strains of goini for years and dispite the fact that I eventually produce high numbers of patternless and striped animals I also saw every variation imaginable. By their very nature these guys are variable.

I'm glad you like that girl Tony. I agree, these are as variable as thayeri. I've only gotten back into them in the last 3-4 years, but back when I bred them 10 years ago, I produced one that was almost solid black with very faint bands. The bands were wide, but they just didn't have much color. I sold it cheap, as to me, it was ugly as hell. lol. I sure wish I had some of those adults now, but things will come and go.

Brandon Osborne

No offense, but I still question all the high red animals like the adult pic you posted. It is known that certain breeders bred/breed FL Kings into them to get that high red and crossbreed them back into Apalachicola, "goini", whatever you like to call them. And the fact that those two offspring look so similar makes me wonder as well.

I appreciate the concern, but the debate will go on and on. I'll continue to call them what I've always called them. In my opinion, I would be more concerned about a red "floridana" popping up than I would be about a red goini.

Peace.
Brandon Osborne

Hi Brandon and Sean,I would like to share some of my thoughts with you two pretaining to goini and floridana if I may.I've worked with both species since 1984 and have never seen either species retain reds or oranges into adulthood until approx. maybe 5 years ago,and then only in goini.In both species,whether W/C or C/B we do see various amounts of reds and oranges in hatchlings that fade away as the snake matures.What I'm going to say is only my opinion,I don't claim it as fact, but it may be something to think about.Here Goes;Since off-spring of both species do express some reds and oranges,I beleive they posess erythophores.We know they posess xanthophores.I beleive the pigment of xanthophores expresses itself more so than the erythophores do causing the reds and oranges to demlnish with growth.With this in mind,the erythophores are not missing,they are covered by the xanthophores.I beleive through years of selective breeding we are seeing the erythophores being slowly uncovered,causing animals to now retain reds and oranges into adulthood.Consider the hypos with their reds and oranges.Please let me know what you guys think about this.Thank You,Tim Ricks

In my opinion, I would be more concerned about a red "floridana" popping up than I would be about a red goini.

That FL King I hatched out came from a WC female. Yours were produced from CB animals that have been selectively bred over the years from different people. Unless you caught the adults yourself, you never really know what you have. With all the hybrids being produced today and SO many people not knowing what they really are buying anymore, it just makes me question everything more.

Did you catch your adults? If not where did you get them? Not implying anything, just curious.

thanks
Brandon

Most of my kings were found by me or someone who was out herping with me, which normally is Pierson Hill. On several occasions I've watched him find kings right in front of me. I bought some WC Apalachicola Kings from Len Krysko this year and traced them back to the original finder who I spoke with to confirm their history.