Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So what do the experts here think?? This is an axanthic/anerythristic FL. king I obtained from Dave B. recently. I believe it carries the hypo gene as well.
I have never worried what to call it (Lemke or N.E.) but what is the consensis? I would say Lemke, but it really doesn't matter.She will be bred to my normal 2x het/ghost this coming spring. I also have a female 2x het/ghost for the male so I'm hedging my bets a bit to get a ghost or two. (fingers crossed)
:Mark

Hi Crimsonking,Tim Ricks here,not claiming to be an expert,but my opinion is"it really doesn't matter" if they are Lemke or N.E. strains since they are compatable and one and the same gene.Very impressive snake you have,and I agree with you"it really doesn't matter." But by others definitions, your snake would be to pretty to be a Lemke and since it is not drabby, it must be a N.E.

By you saying it doesnt matter then why have a pricing on say Hypo Hondurans that range from 150-400 bucks ? They have the same hypo mutation thats compatable but some are better looking than others so that reflects in the price. "It doesnt matter" doesnt fly as Im sure when you are looking to buy a pair of snakes and you have the whole clutch to choose from you pick the ones that look best to you right ? So yes appearance does matter. I think ??? it was you selling red or flame Brooksi before on the classifieds why where they so much more expensive than regular Brooksi ? Same as normal Brooks right ? they just had a bit more red so then why sell them for more ?

NE Axanthics came about differently than the Lemke's in fact there is no history to Lemke's that Im aware of except that males in the past had fertility problems. One thing about the NE is that Bob Fengya outcrossed the original male owned by Steve Fuller to some exceptional normal Brooksi that he had been working with for years. So they are a bit more refined but I agree the Lemke's are probably catching up plus Im sure people are crossing the lines as well. I think what matters though is that I think you have a more consistant looking baby with NE's than you do with Lemke's.

Keith
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If you're directing your reply at me,well I'm sorry! I should have said "it really doesn't matter TO ME!" Geesh!
Sorry if I offended any of the big guys with my own opinion of my own animals, '
I was just looking for other's input. I guess I should have expected the lecture
I have never sold or offered for sale any animal on KS.
:Mark

Yeah Mark that was for Tim Ricks. Sorry didnt mean to unintentionally lecture you on your animals.

Keith
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Keith,Tim Ricks here,I am very sorry if you were offended by my comment"it really doesn't matter".Until today I was not aware of a distinct visual difference in "Lemke" and N.E. strains.Questions and comments from me today were efforts to acquire knowledge pretaining to the two.The pictures posted today of N.E. strain distinctly expresses an appreciatively great difference in the two.I thank everyone who posted pictures,I STAND CORRECTED in the "it really doesn't matter" comment.No one has ever been able to verbally describe N.E. strains to me in a manner for me to comprehend what I have seen today.Those who posted today,your pictures say it ALL.Thank You ,Tim Ricks

BTW,I never question the validity of the two.

I was under the impression you owned both lines of Axanthics but I guess not. Didnt mean to sound so defensive, I apologize.

Regards,

Keith
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Tim-
The female's axanthic lineage is actually the Llemke line. She was produced by double hets in '00 that had Llemke axanthics crossed to Beard hypos as thier lineage. She is sister to my ghost female and was proven to be het hypo this season when she mated with a hypo, producing several hypos and several normals. The axanthic's mother is the big 2x het female that Brandon Osborne now owns and laid 44 eggs this year!

BTW, thanks for answering my question on the genetic background of the white sideds brooks a little ways down the forum.

Dave B

Hi Dave,so now I get to see another absulutely gorgeous animal.Since I'm new to the internet,I'm searching for what determines "Lemke" or N.E. strains.I see great consistency in what You,Chris Davidsen and keith Hillson have displayed as N.E.strains.They all have clean white and very little pattern of cross-bars,suggesting that they are decendents of extreme south Florida habitat,where as a "Lemke" strain,which deos express some washed-out white and shows across-bar pattern is probably from a Floridana race northerly of extreme south but not as for north to a line of intergradation.In my opinion and from specimens I've seen,I think the line of intergradation is north of Lake Okeechobee.Please correct me if I am wrong and I also invite others input.Thank You ,Tim Ricks

I didn't specify but that is my ghost female. There are several "NE" axanthics I've seen that have the ghostlike look. Keith does a great job with his photos, I take pics in my basement. I would like to saddle up a ghost next to a NE and compare in the same light the similarities and differences. There is no comparison as hatchlings but some look close as adults. If you can, get over to Jeff L's, look at his ghosts.
As far as I know all current ghosts come from the Llemke/Beard bloodlines.What I would like to do in my dreams is breed a nice red hypo to one of these sterling NE axanthic with the hope that we get the 6 foot super purple patternless king...maybe.

brooksi- the original "vanishing pattern" and still the best.
dave b

Awesome Ghost Dave! I can't wait until mine are that size.

Brandon Osborne

...but she better make a whole lot more ghosts because I want some!

Here is a pic of a New England Axanthic Brooksi. She is a 1999 hatch.

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Absolutely KNOCK-OUT GORGEOUS,EXCELLENT

Like you said Mark, it doesn't really matter. The debate will go on and on. I have both strains and as adults, I can't really tell them apart. I got my N.E. animals from a breeder here on the forum, and they turned out nothing like what his adults look like. They actually have more black than some of my Lemke animals....I still thing they are awesome. Here's a pic of a Lemke male I produced in 1997.

Brandon Osborne

Now that is a stunning animal. What an awesome bluish hue to him.I went with the New England strain Axanthic because I was under the inpression they would be the only ones that turned a bluish/black as adults. Your adult Llemke strain just blew that mindset right out of the water. Very nice Brandon, I hope my 04 male Axanthic pictured a few post below turns out half as nice as yours. Is there a way to tell how purple, or bluish in color they will turn out to be as adults by looking at them while they're still hatchling/yearlings? Thanks in advance.

Steve

Thanks Steve. Depending on who you get your stock from, many of the axanthics will vary. Personally, I think I have some Lemke animals that rival many of the N.E.'s that I've seen. It's all a matter of personal opinion. I've seen good and bad of both. You just have to know where to get them. As far as babies having a different appearance in color, I can't tell them apart. Some of the N.E. have more of a tight pattern and thinner crossbars, but other than that, color is the same.

Brandon Osborne