Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been thinking about my long range plans and whether or not to keep the Chinese beauty snakes. The thing is that they are very hardy and easy to manage, mature fast, and are a very interesting snake. But they don't necessarily make a good pet snake. They are part of the racer/ratsnake complex of Old World snakes and don't handle really well, and they get fairly large at about five feet, or so. I tend to keep rather smallish species, and snakes that make great pets, and with a move to the Southwest coming up in about four years, I'm wondering what snakes I should keep after the move. I want to start with a fairly small collection because I know it'll build fast once I'm permanently settled and I don't want to overcrowd my new herp room.

Here's an updated pic of my 2003 calico female...

She just shed a couple days ago and her slough measured 48 inches, which makes the snake probably around 38 go 40 inches. At this rate she'll easily be over 4 ft. at two yrs of age. I'm thinking I'll breed her for the first time in 2007, however. That will be before our big move. But then I'll sell her and her offspring, if not keeping them for the move. I wonder if anyone will come up with a miniature taeniurus by then. I've heard of a very small morph that is montane somewhere, but have never seen one.

Anyway, thought some of you might like to see an updated pic, and talk about taeniurus a little.

Later....TC
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Ratsnake Haven: Calico and hypo Chinese beauty snakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, Great Plains ratsnakes and corns

Well, you're right..those are just TOO big for you to keep anymore...just go ahead and ship those babies down to me! I'll even pay the shipping! lol I'll suffer the burden of having those "ugly" things around...lol
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

Sorry for thinking out loud. Guess I was getting bored. Well, when the time comes you'll all know about it, I'm sure. Taeniura are great snakes, and make great captives for the right people in the right places. I just want to plan for the future and make the right decisions for me. It'll be interesting to see the babies that she produces. They do grow quickly. TC.

You don't need to overwork yourself like that...just go ahead and send them down to me...in fact, I'll come pick them up! I'll let you know what the babies look like when that time comes. lol
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

I've only seen a handful of adult Chinese Beauties and they are sort of that awkward size. A bit too big for a rack, but not quite big enough to justify some of the readily available commercial cages. On that note, they seem a poor choice given your interests.

But, on the other hand, they come in a variety of morphs and we have probably not realized their full potential for selective breeding. So if you're sort of wanting something just a little bit different from the rest of your collection without being overly large or aggressive, Chinese Beauties seem a good choice.

Personally, I'd sell them and invest the money in Prasina

Hopefully there are some dwarf beauties floating around or more will come in. I'm sure you remember my run-in with possible dwarf Yunans at a show several years ago. I'm convinced they exist but am concerned they were bred in with larger populations.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks for the response. I think I know one of the reasons you suggested prasina as a substitute for the t. taeniurus..LOL.

Actually, I feel kinda funny talking about getting rid of my Chinese beauties considering the fact I've talked about how nice they are so much. Right now they are perfect for me, except that they are a little large for a rack as you said. Also, I'm starting to use handleability along with small size as a way to keep my numbers under control. And, in thinking for the future, I'm getting more concerned about the humidity factor.

Right now, my beauties do really well, even considering the humidity drops to a low of about 30% sometimes in the winter season here. It's not the determining factor for Chinese beauties. However, it might be for some species, like mandarina, and maybe prasina. You know I like Mandarins, but they'll probably have to go even before the taeniurus, because of the lack of humidity under normal conditions in the Southwest. I've thought about prasina before too, but the main reason I never tried them was because of the humidity, and my concerns that it just wouldn't work for me. I think their size is, ok, and they are definitely cool looking, and they are very interesting in my way of thinking. What do you think about the humidity with them?

If I ever get the chance to try those dwarf beauties, I may go for it. Would you believe I've actually started getting interested in the guttata complex again? I already have several projects started and plan to take those with me to AZ. I may specialize in the western forms of emoryi and meahllmorum which haven't been worked with a whole lot. I'll probably start out in AZ with some guttata ssps, and common kings, both great pets sps, and possibly keeping my miniature Eurasians. We also have a ratsnake, Senticolis triaspis, and a king, Lampropeltis pyromelana, right next door in the Santa Rita Mtns. that would make great study subjects. Can't wait

Take care....TC

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Ratsnake Haven: Calico and hypo Chinese beauty snakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, Great Plains ratsnakes and corns

>>Actually, I feel kinda funny talking about getting rid of my Chinese beauties considering the fact I've talked about how nice they are so much. Right now they are perfect for me, except that they are a little large for a rack as you said.

There are probably boxes perfect for Chinese Beauties if you want to hang onto them. I quarantine my Gonyosoma in Iris boxes measuring 32"x17"x12". I think that would work very well. If you don't want to provide the height there are options there as well.

>>Also, I'm starting to use handleability along with small size as a way to keep my numbers under control.

Totally understandable. If I add more species to my collection it will all be small, handleable stuff. Probably Mandarins, Porphyracea, and Pale Milksnakes (I live in their range). But to be honest, I'm basically only keeping one species right now (G. jansnei and G. oxycephala are so similar it's hard to think of them as two species) and I'm getting more satisfaction from my snake collection than I have in years. Even though I've not had any breeding success yet and my collection is still giving me fits.

It really sounds like you'd want something just a bit different from the "theme" of your collection. If you're really worried about the humidity issue Senticolis would probably do as good of a job as Chinese Beauties.

Senticolis would probably eat much less than a Chinese Beauty and probably would fair better in a small cage.

>>And, in thinking for the future, I'm getting more concerned about the humidity factor.

Terry, I live at elevation in the Black Hills. We have more humidity than the southwest, but not much.

I know this may sound crazy, but I actually prefer the dry air. Why? Because I like high humidity species to dry out between mistings. This probably relates more to the species that actually require misting for drinking water or to induce defication, but I think it can also be used to your advantage with the species you keep.

With humidity it's easier to add it vs. taking it away.

>>I've thought about prasina before too, but the main reason I never tried them was because of the humidity, and my concerns that it just wouldn't work for me. I think their size is, ok, and they are definitely cool looking, and they are very interesting in my way of thinking. What do you think about the humidity with them?

I've never kept Prasina but my comments above would apply to them as well.

>>Would you believe I've actually started getting interested in the guttata complex again?

I keep thinking I may add a pair of true Oketees. No albinos, hets, or anything else. Ironically, these fetch the premium dollars nowadays.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

With a humidifier running around the clock, my snake room maintains an ambient humidity of about 45%. I increase the actual cage humidity by controlling ventilation and misting. That also makes it tougher to control odor. With that, my Boas still need a moist hide and/or extra heavy misting at shed time.
That calico is really something special. I'm sure it would be hard to ever part with her. On the other hand, if it doesn't work out, she'll be easy to place with a good keeper.
If nothing else, those Triaspis in the Ritas have sure got my attention... Meet me out there and we'll take "em on.

Mark, thanks for the info. I'm sure with a little work I'll make a go of it within the Herp Room.

Those green rats can be pretty challenging ya' know. That said, let's go when you're ready. I'll be out there on Spring Break this year, but late March isn't a very good time to look. When we move I'll practically be living in the Ritas though. Then we'll do it good.

Til then...happy herpin'...TC.

Chris, I never knew you lived in the Black Hills. That's a pretty cool place and I hope to go there someday. Start lookin' for those milks

I think the caging situation is ok for the Chinese beauties. I think I'm just starting to take a different approach to herpetology. I've been researching the Asian ratsnakes since 1988, and struggling with all the difficulties of working with species that there was little data for. I just want to settle down and enjoy the snakes I have and the lifestyle I've chosen. I like to spend a lot of time in the field too, so you'll see many of my snakes paralleling the types of field work I do.

I expect I'll spend time in the mtns of AZ looking for green rats and pyros. I'll spend time in CA looking for kings, etc. I'll spend time in N. M. and West TX looking for various ratsnakes and maybe a couple king/milks. I won't want too large of a collection, so I'm already managing in advance to try to keep from over-doing.

I probably could manage the Asians in AZ if I really wanted to. I already do a lot of the same things as you with mistings and I put a moist hide in with some before they shed. Sounds like you've found some good methods for managing those various Gonyosomas. Good luck with them and thanks for the great input.

TC