Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just picked up this little fellow at a show today. I am totally new to this species. Could someone please help with a proper ID and maybe a little info. Sorry it looks like I need to do a little more cropping.

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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

No sure on the exact subspecies it could be, but definately S.diadema. I used to have S.d.atriceps, which was a gorgeous snake! I've always thought that they were pretty cool snakes.
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

There seems to be very little info on these snakes. I thought he was pretty cool, and its the first ive seen at the show that I attend regularly. Any more info any has would be greatly appreciated.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

Were you at Lee Watson's reptile swap yesterday?I saw a table with them and I dang near picked up some myself...Paul

Reptiles Dec 2001 has an article on them. It says to keep them pretty warm, 85-90.

One thing you should know. 'Diadem Ratsnakes' are not ratsnakes. They are racers (tribus Colubrini), just like 'Tiger Ratsnakes' (Spilotus) and some of the Asian 'Ratsnakes' (Zaocys and related genera). A very common mistake, by the way.

Greetings,

Herman Bronsgeest.

>>One thing you should know. 'Diadem Ratsnakes' are not ratsnakes. They are racers (tribus Colubrini), just like 'Tiger Ratsnakes' (Spilotus) and some of the Asian 'Ratsnakes' (Zaocys and related genera). A very common mistake, by the way.
>>
>>Greetings,
>>
>>Herman Bronsgeest.

Herman, I'm not doubting you, but it seems a little strange that they would be in the colubrini. There are many genera that have both racer and ratsnake characteristics in Asia. While I think most are considered ratsnakes (lampropeltini?), I believe, some are kinda questionable, such as Gonyosoma. I would think Spalerosophis has some ratsnake qualities too, although I know what you are saying.

One of the ratsnakes that I think is very close to the racers is Zamenis situla. I think the two tribes have much history in common.

TC

The Lampropeltini and the Colubrini share a common ancester, therefore some of the more primitive members of the Colubrini share some of the more primitive characteristics of the Lampropeltini, and vice versa. This goes especially for Spalerosophis (tribus Colubrini) and Euprepiophis (tribus Lampropeltini). As a matter of fact, in Utiger et al (2002) Euprepiophis is grouped right next to the Colubrinid outgroup Ptyas mucosus. The species now considered as Zamensis spp. are grouped together with Oocatochus and Coronella as a monophyletic group, with an intermediate position between Euprepiophis and the other, more advanced groups of Lampropeltinid ratsnakes. I have kept some Zamensis situla for a couple of years, and I must admit that I have seen many behavioral similarities with some of the European Coluber species. Did you read Utiger et al? You definately should! You can find it on the Taxonomy Forum.

Greetings,

Herman Bronsgeest.

Thank you, Herman, for the additional information. I do have the Utiger paper which is the most important piece of literature currently for the ratsnake enthusiasts. Although I see more work to be done on ratsnake and racer taxonomy, Utiger, et al. definitely made some advances for us.

I'm entertaining the idea that ratsnakes and racers had a common ancestor in the not too distant past (Miocene), and that many of their genera still have characteristics from the ancestral snakes, and we can see some of these characteristics in some modern snakes today. One example I've given was Z. situla, and another is, Elaphe bimaculata, which still has some racer characteristics, although noone would doubt it was a ratsnake.

I don't go to the Taxonomy Forum very often, but I'll check it out. Later....TC.

>>I just picked up this little fellow at a show today. I am totally new to this species. Could someone please help with a proper ID and maybe a little info. Sorry it looks like I need to do a little more cropping.
>>

That looks just like the little egyptian (cliffordii) someone told me my diadem was awhile back. I have since also acquired 1.1 true Royal Diadems, which do look much different.

Yours doesn't bite you? Mine tries to take bites out of me when held.
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Lower Ground Reptiles

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

You guys have some really great info. Listening to you makes me realize just how little i know about snakes. I am looking foward to see how this guy turns out as he grows. Paul, nope not the same show. I live in Texas. There is a show in Arlington about 5 times a year. As far as the snake biting, he is a little nippy. The table i got him from had two. While I was popping the first one I picked up he was chewing on my finger. It was pretty funny. This one seems to be alot more mellow. He kind of reminds me of my jouvie Texas rat.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 texas corn
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
1,0 diadem
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

It certaily doesn't look like my Diadem's, as the pattern is different and my guys are more of a pinkish color. Anyway, they are pretty easy to care for as the care is about the same as other "ratsnakes". We're having winter here and their eating has slowed a bit, but a heat pad, water bowl, and weekly feeding seem to do the trick.. Also, it appears, at least with the species I have that they are noctural, and only occasionally do I see them out, so I think they wait till I'm gone!!!

I was thinking they were more of a racer type species, so i appreciate the fact that someone confirmed it, as they are very nervous, fast, and whippy!

Good luck with him!

Freight