Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This little guy was found by a friend while trying to cross the street this morning. I am an expierenced tortoise keeper (redfoots and leopards) so i know all the stuff involved with keeping a turtle. However I need advice on...

1. Diet, this little guy is tiny, what to feed???
2. Temps, self explanatory
3. ...Or should i just put him back out and wish him well? It has gotten cold in saint louis allready, below freezing a few times. I think he may have been hibernating earlier but came out prematurely because temps got pretty hight this weekend (over 55 degrees F) It dosen't seem likely that he would find a good hiding place and make it through the winter. He is VERY active right now, so it seems like he would fare best with at least some care to see him through the winter.

Please, any advice is very welcome, also it may sound crazy but I was thinking about trying to get him to eat a bit of Mazuri tortoise food, it is high in fiber and protien and low in fat. Baby tortoises fare very well on the stuff (supplemented with some fresh stuff too), and it usually produces very firm healthy shells, what do you all think...

-Ian

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I'm not aware of the laws in missouri, but easterns are protected throughout most of their range, something you might want to look into, the little guy is deffinatly not one of this years which mean s/he's been through one winter already, if you get another day over 55 degrees and the location s/he was found in is suitable(little to no housing, wooded heavily, not alot of traffic or anything that man made that would kill it) then I'd release him, if the location is not suitable since he's a yearling relocating him would probly lead to his death, so you'd have to keep him or rehome him, as for basic hatchling husbandry, temps should be around 95 basking temp, 75 on the cool side, high humidity, the little guys usually really go for reptomin sticks(soaked) but since he's wild, natural foods would probly be a better idea for him, worms, sow bugs, slugs, basically anything he can get into his mouth(I've seen wild turtles eat poison ivy, not sure if it's healthy but it's an interesting observation) mushrooms seem to make up a fair amount of wild boxie diet, aswell as carion and plant matter be it fruit or greens.
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My Site
1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
1.1 Rouen Ducks

Thanks for the reply. First, I have helped captive breed a large herd of boxies and I would have to disagree with one of your statements. I have seen many hatchling boxies (mere hours old) as well as many yearlings and I do not think this is a yearling. I could be wrong but I am almost positive that this little guy hasn't been through a winter yet. Anyway, I thank you for your advice on tempatures and diet. Hopefully I can get it to eat very soon, maybe even get some growth so it will have a better chance at survival next year (if I release it).

Also, call me a rebel but I'm not too worried about the protected status (if it is protected in missouri that is). Its crazy, in flordia, the gov't allows the habitat of the gopher tortoise to be destroyed by developers but doesn't allow expierenced keepers to catch and release the torts in a safer location. Essentially, I think most would agree that ethically, the animals welfare is more important than what the gov't will do if they catch me trying to help an animal in danger. So they can put me in jail if thats what they want to do, oh crap are those sirens I hear...

-Ian

Because it is a wild turtle, and probably hasn't eaten on a set schedule the way a CB would have, its virtually impossible to say for sure how old it is...It may well have overwintered in the nest for all we know.
I have several hatchlings from this year, and only the ones that began eating within a week from hatching, and now eat every other day, are of comparable size to the one shown in your photograph. It is doubtful (but not impossible) that the one you found has been lucky enough to eat so regularly.
Rouen's assertion that it is probably a yearling is quite reasonable, when you take that sort of thing into consideration.
As for finding a suitable place to brumate/hibernate goes, a few inches of leaf litter in the woods nearby is probably all it needs. If that's where it was headed, that's where I'd take it, and set it down next to a rotting log: it would quickly disappear under the leaves quite happily on its own.
There is evidently enough of an adult population in the vicinity to have produced this little guy, so there must be some habitat.
Please consider what diseases you may end up passing around between your tortoises and this little guy should you choose to keep it.
Regards
Stephanie

Of course, but the torts and this guy are VERY seperated from eachother, disesae isn't really a concern of mine. I agree that it is possible that this is a yearling, however I don't think that my neighborhood (reasonibly urban town of about 35,000 people) is the greatest habitat to let it go. The most likely parents are a pair of turtles that "live" in my friends back yard. They are not caged in any way (no fence no enclosure) but have for some reason taken a liking to his backyard. We have seen this pair "mating" multiple times this year, never before though. Anyway, it doesn't really matter how old this turtle is, what matters is how to best give him/her a fighting chance at life!

-Ian

actually age does matter if you plan on releasing it, hatchlings imprint on a "home range" territory and if moved can cause the death of the animal since it wont know where to find food, and it will forever search for "home" which makes it an easy target for predators.
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My Site
1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
1.1 Rouen Ducks

Good point, however, If the animal is released VERY far away, far from cars and people, in a location that I have personally seen upwards of 100 boxies in the past I would have to think that it would be better off than if released into an urban area like where it was found wandering in the middle of a 4 lane road. Also, do you think that its OK to release it now as temps have gotten much lower than they were a few days ago when it was found, I would think that it has less of a chance at finding a good hibernation spot when its cold. What exactly do you suggest?

-Ian

While my experience in boxies is limited, I'd have to say there is no way that boxie pictured has gone through a season and has not acquired a single growth band. That can't be more than a few months old if that old.

As to what to do with the little thing... the bunnyhugger in you has to be saying to 'save it from the evils of life'.

Then there is the realist that says to let it go an let nature take it's course... it becomes bird food or manages to survive.

Then there is the human side... 'check it out... I got a new pet'.

I'm sure you can think of other scenarios...
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Ed, I'm shocked! not every year a turtle lives does it produce growth rings, I'd think you'd know this as it's the same with tortoises, they can also produce 2 or more any given year, thats why growth rings are not a reliable way to age a chelonian.

and Ian, I've already told you what I think you should do.
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My Site
1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
1.1 Rouen Ducks

There is evidence of growth, but you have to look very closely. Its just not as obvious as new growth on a CB, but its there.
Regards
Stephanie

do you think you can post a similar picture of a new born to the second one in this post. Like I said my experience with captive boxies is limited but every WC I've every found has shown very distinct growth rings. The first 4 to 5 years is usually that fastest growth and usually has the widest bands.

If that animal was wild for a year I would think it would have to be severely diseased or it was an improperly cared for escapee.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Ed, I e-mailed a picture to you, for comparison, 'coz I still haven't figured out how to post them here...

Stephanie

I appreciate that but where did you email it to?

Ed
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Just click on the "photo gallery" link at the top of the page, then click upload photos, type your username and passowrd, choose the pic and click upload. Then when posting or replying to a message you can select the pic from a dropdown list localed below the "message box"... Hope this helps...
-Ian

A whole year and NO growth rings, Doesnt seem likely...

-Ian

key perspective... Doesn't seem likely.

(Note: pads are going out today via USPS)
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

-Ian

I'd be lots of money on that being this year's hatchling.

Hi - you have a very young box turtle. please do not release this guy/gal. you hit the nail on the head. He/she would probably not find a good place to brumate without freezing.
Food ? I've captive breed boxes. I started with live tubiflex worms. This usually got the babys going. Then I would move on to strawberries, soft dog food, turtle stix wet down to soften them up. Once you get him/her eating you'll be fine. you can release him/her in the spring.

Good luck

Mark

Thanks for the advice, I thought I was in the headed in the right direction...

-Ian

Hi,
Im also a MO resident. I believe the law in MO is each family member is allowed to have 5 native repiles with the exception of game species such as snappers/softshells-need a permit for those. This is a three toed box turtle, triungais (sp?). No clue on the age- I would keep him! You dont find animals that young very often and- HAVE you seen the dozens of wildcaught adult box turtles for sale on the classifieds!? Good luck.

OH, yah and don't forget to KEEP HIM NICE AND MOIST!
Damp/wet moss, mulch etc. with a very shallow large water area.