Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,

I'm designing and building my first cage/stand for my corn snake to grow into. (Image is attached) I want it to look fairly nice (ie, stain, finishing, etc, it will be made of wood, I just don't know what kind yet) as it will be kind of for display (it's not going to be down in a basement where no one but me will see it, that is). It will be built as part of a stand with a few shelves for storage. The bottom section will be holding my other 5 gal aquarium with actual fish in it, but eventually it will either hold another corn or possibly mice. How does the basic design look so far?

As it is, the cage's dimensions are 24"Lx14"Hx12"D; is this going to be large enough for an adult corn snake? Right now mine is only 16" long, but I want him to be able to grow into it.

I would like the front and sides to be clear, so Plexiglass or regular glass... what are your suggestions? I was thinking Plexiglass because it will be lighter (and cheaper? I don't know) but I've had issues with plexiglass clouding up from evaporated water deposits -- would this be a problem with a snake cage?

I was also thinking about painting the back panel with artist's acrylic paints mural-like (I'm an art student)-- Would these be toxic, even if I sealed it? What sort of sealant would I need to use?

Is it feasible to grow plants in a cage this size, and what sorts of plants? Which are not toxic, etc.

Which do you reccomend for cleaning/access purposes; a top-opening cage or a front-opening cage?

How would I heat a cage like this? On the 5 gal my snake is in right now, I have a mini Cobra Heat Mat underneath and a Zoo Med 75 W basking bulb on top that keep the temp at 85* on the warm side and high 70s* on the cooler side. Obviously I would need a bigger heat mat for this size cage, but would it be feasible, or should I just stick to a basking bulb (possible larger...?)?

Questions not directly related to the cage, but heating/lighting in general:
Since corn snakes are nocturnal, should I be providing a "moon" lamp like I have seen in some other nocturnal herp set-ups? Or possibly just a ceramic heat emitter to keep it warm? Or am doing fine by my snake right now, by only leaving on the Cobra mat at night?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure my corn is happy. =)

Thanks!
Redkite

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http://redkite7.deviantart.com
Poor College Student: Email me about Pet Portraits!

If thats all the bigger you want the cage you could just get a 20 long and be done with it. They are about the same size as the dimensions you gave...probobly a little longer actually.
A light on top would heat the cage nicely

>>The bottom section will be holding my other 5 gal aquarium with actual fish in it, but eventually it will either hold another corn or possibly mice. How does the basic design look so far?

Looks good, I don't know about putting mice down there...the snakes will be smelling them all the time and be more prone to biting you when you go in to handle them. I would say make it a second snake cage.

>>As it is, the cage's dimensions are 24"Lx14"Hx12"D; is this going to be large enough for an adult corn snake? Right now mine is only 16" long, but I want him to be able to grow into it.

I would reccomend 30-36" long (minimum), 16-18" high, and about 14-16" deep.

>>I would like the front and sides to be clear, so Plexiglass or regular glass... what are your suggestions? I was thinking Plexiglass because it will be lighter (and cheaper? I don't know) but I've had issues with plexiglass clouding up from evaporated water deposits -- would this be a problem with a snake cage?

Plexiglass is expensive as ****. (Insert your own 4 letter swear word, or if you dont swear, "heck" works nicely as well.) I would construct the entire cage out of 3/4" plywood, 1/4" for the back panel. Also if you have plexiglass sides, a problem you may run into is that your snake will have so much traffic going by his cage, he will get very stressed and not want to eat. You don't want that.

>>I was also thinking about painting the back panel with artist's acrylic paints mural-like (I'm an art student)-- Would these be toxic, even if I sealed it? What sort of sealant would I need to use?

If you paint it, I would use something like a behr latex paint. Prime it with behr interior primer, then you can use that to seal it. As long as you use a semigloss paint, it should be pretty durable. I would seal the rest of the wood with polycrlic - water based polyurethane. On the floor use FRP (fiberglass reinforced plasitc) or expanded PVC. This will prevent your wood from rotting out from under you, literally. I would also run the frp or expanded pvc about 4-6 inches up each wall for a corn snake.

>>Is it feasible to grow plants in a cage this size, and what sorts of plants? Which are not toxic, etc.

plants cause high humidity, high humidity causes wood to rot. i'd stay with silk leaves.

>>Which do you reccomend for cleaning/access purposes; a top-opening cage or a front-opening cage?

if you're going for height, i'd get a sliding track and put some sliding glass doors in the front.

>>How would I heat a cage like this? On the 5 gal my snake is in right now, I have a mini Cobra Heat Mat underneath and a Zoo Med 75 W basking bulb on top that keep the temp at 85* on the warm side and high 70s* on the cooler side. Obviously I would need a bigger heat mat for this size cage, but would it be feasible, or should I just stick to a basking bulb (possible larger...?)?

I would reccomend a RHP, or radient heat panel. They are kinda pricey, but they work wonders...save a lot of electricity....and Ive been told they make your snakes more healthy, because of the type of eneergy produced from them. You can build insets for lights, or take a router and cut out a hole for an UTH, however. I've heard that you can use flexwatt and make it act as a RHP, however I have never gotten an answer on that so im not sure.

>>Questions not directly related to the cage, but heating/lighting in general:
Since corn snakes are nocturnal, should I be providing a "moon" lamp like I have seen in some other nocturnal herp set-ups? Or possibly just a ceramic heat emitter to keep it warm? Or am doing fine by my snake right now, by only leaving on the Cobra mat at night?

you are doing fine. the only reason to add a blacklight would be so you can see it during night time hours.

>>Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure my corn is happy. =)

no problem...i was on here for probably 3-4 months bugging people asking a million questions before i actually started construction on my cages. when you get more questions dont hesitate to ask.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Claudius)... coming soon

Wow, you have quite a few questions. I don't know a whole lot about corn snakes but I could possibly help with some of your questions.

If you plan on using plexiglass for the sides and front I would think that a ceramic heat emitter would possibly warp these panels. (correct me if I'm wrong, everybody). Possibly better to go with some type of belly heat. Especially since it looks like there will be some air flow between each compartment that would allow excess heat to dissipate (this would reduce some of the risks normally found with using belly heat).

Also, you may want to check out some care sheets or ask on a corn snake forum, but I do not believe corns need special lighting. So you may be able to cut some costs by not purchasing a UVB bulb. Like I said, I'm not really a corn snake expert, so ask around first.

Lastly, I think the idea of painting a mural on the back of the tank is a fairly original idea. I see no reason why you couldn't paint a mural on the back - just paint it on the outside of the tank (you'll be painting "backwards". This is assuming you will be using glass or some other clear medium for the back panel. You will avoid toxicity issues and it will last longer due to the fact that the mural will not get scratched up as easily.

I'm far from an expert in cage and tank building, these are just some ideas I have and I am completely open to criticism or other opinions. If someone else has something to add, please do.

Good luck.
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Sometimes, things are exactly as they appear...sometimes.

>>As it is, the cage's dimensions are 24"Lx14"Hx12"D; is this going to be large enough for an adult corn snake? Right now mine is only 16" long, but I want him to be able to grow into it.

>>I would like the front and sides to be clear, so Plexiglass or regular glass... what are your suggestions? I was thinking Plexiglass because it will be lighter (and cheaper? I don't know) but I've had issues with plexiglass clouding up from evaporated water deposits -- would this be a problem with a snake cage?

You could certainly put glass panels into the side. In that case you might consider making frames from wood stock instead of plywood. Please see recent thread on a cage built for a Green Tree Python. It should be fairly recent. I believe one of the replies was "functional piece of furniture" or something like that.

Don't use plexiglass.

If you decide against the clear sides then oak or birch laminated plywood would make construction much easier.

>>I was also thinking about painting the back panel with artist's acrylic paints mural-like (I'm an art student)-- Would these be toxic, even if I sealed it? What sort of sealant would I need to use?

My biggest concern about clear coating these paints is that the solvents in the clear coat might partially disolve the mural. Best to ask at your local paint store.

Worst case scenario is that you either laminate a piece of glass over the mural or pour a layer of Envirotex epoxy over it.

Or just have the back panel made of glass as well and then have your mural stuck to the back.

>>Is it feasible to grow plants in a cage this size, and what sorts of plants? Which are not toxic, etc.

Not sure. Plants generally do best in large, well ventilated cages.

>>Which do you reccomend for cleaning/access purposes; a top-opening cage or a front-opening cage?

Front opening, no doubt. I do not recommend a framed, hinged door for a cage this small. It takes away too much visibility. Keep the front as open as possible.

>>How would I heat a cage like this?

Hard to say without knowing more about your room, etc. Safe choice is a radiant heat panel.

>>Questions not directly related to the cage, but heating/lighting in general:
>>Since corn snakes are nocturnal, should I be providing a "moon" lamp like I have seen in some other nocturnal herp set-ups? Or possibly just a ceramic heat emitter to keep it warm? Or am doing fine by my snake right now, by only leaving on the Cobra mat at night?

Snakes actually do require a small amount of visible light at night. But there will be plenty in your home so no worries there. Only provide a red or blue light if you want to see you snake at night.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks for all the info everybody. chris_harper2, that chondro cage is actually what I was looking at when I decided to build my own -- it is a very nice cage. Will definitely use that as a resource when building mine.

Got a couple more questions though.

If I use the Envirotex epoxy to coat the whole thing, will I need to or should I still use the FRP or expanded PVC along the bottom and sides?

What do you reccomend for ventilation? Should I make the top screened like in my current tank, or fit the sides or back with something like what crtoon83 is doing with his cage?

For the front opening, I think I'll use a side-opening door, kind of like a mircowave, and have the top hinge open upwards as well: I learned my lesson from cleaning bird cages that accessibility is a good thing, though snakes don't seem to make as much of a mess, it can't hurt?

For dimensions, I think I'll go with 30"L x 16"H x 14"D... I'd use the higher values you gave me, crtoon83, but I'm living in the college dorms right now and I don't have a whole lot of space. If he needs more room than that when he's all grown up, I'll be able to build something bigger than that. Do you think that's alright?

I was looking through the Kingsnake photo gallery and saw rbichler's set-up... it looks like he's just got regular aquariums on bookcase shelving, but modified so they'll roll outward on tracks? That looks like an interesting idea, although I think that would be a little more money than just building a simple cage? What do you guys think?

Sorry again for all the questions... There'd be more but I can't think of any at the moment and I've got to get to work.

Thanks for all your help!!
-Redkite
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http://redkite7.deviantart.com
Poor College Student: Email me about Pet Portraits!

>>If I use the Envirotex epoxy to coat the whole thing, will I need to or should I still use the FRP or expanded PVC along the bottom and sides?

This is sort of a tricky question. The easy answer is yes, Envirotex alone will be more than sufficient for sealing this cage. However, it's expensive and probably not absolutely necessary for a cornsnake cage. Especially if you're a poor college student.

Floors tend to take the most abuse in snake cages so you could cover just the floor with scrap expanded PVC or whatever else you can find. Vinyl flooring is often available in small quantities. I'm sure you can find something.

With the floor protected the rest of the cage interior should be find with several coats of a water-based polyurethane. Polycrylic is one I've used with good success in cages with low to moderate humidity requirements.

>>What do you reccomend for ventilation? Should I make the top screened like in my current tank, or fit the sides or back with something like what crtoon83 is doing with his cage?

With that small of a cage you don't want the ventilation to overwhelm the looks of the cage interior. Probably best to find or make some small ventilation panels. A lot of it depends on what your final design is.

>>I was looking through the Kingsnake photo gallery and saw rbichler's set-up... it looks like he's just got regular aquariums on bookcase shelving, but modified so they'll roll outward on tracks? That looks like an interesting idea, although I think that would be a little more money than just building a simple cage? What do you guys think?

I remember that design and others like it. I think it's a great idea. The drawer glides rates for the higher weight are expensive but in the hands of a do-it-youselfer I think you can keep the total cost down.

I think I'd steer you in that direction give your current situation.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

For the most part, space is more of a problem than money, although I do want to keep the cost down. My Dad is helping me build this as a Christmas present of sorts (and a father/daughter project, yay) while I'm home over break. Just clarifying, I'll write more when I get back from work.

-Redkite
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http://redkite7.deviantart.com
Poor College Student: Email me about Pet Portraits!

What I did to vent my cages is I got a 4 inch pvc drain for outside, then caulked it in place. Looks great and very cheap! I'll put a pic up here for you in a couple days when I finally get it taken.

I'm suprised that a college dorm would allow a snake... when i was in college we could only have fish. I hated the housing system though.
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-Chris

The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Black Rat (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Claudius)... coming soon

If your corn is anything like mine you will need a bigger set up. Mine is in a 50gal tank and when she moves she wants every bit of it, and she is active alot. Not tomention that when she does coil she takes up almost a square foot of space. Which inb the case of your design almost half. I would recommend at least 3 ft long and 16-18 deep like the thread before mine. Corns do not REQUIRE any special lighting but it doesn't hgurt either.

Your design allows ample capability for uth heat source.

Seriously consider the use of wood for you sides and back the insulating properties alone are good reason but corns can sometimes be nervous snakes and four way viewing can be stressfull, plus that much plexi in the thickness youd need for stability would be Bill Gates dollars.

hope that helped.

Updated design! Tell me what you think?
Post

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http://redkite7.deviantart.com
Poor College Student: Email me about Pet Portraits!

Hi Guys!

I looked back over it and made a lot of changes. Originally I was planning on having the cage stand as one piece, but drawing from the roll-out bookshelf design that I've seen around, I think I'll go with two separate units -- It'll be easier to take apart and such when I move. Also it will allow me to have more cages at some point (...I'm beginning to understand the "corns are addictive" thing).

So the stand will be 34" L x 64" H x 16" D to allow for three 30" L x 16" H x 14" D cages. (Pic attached) How does that sound? It'll also probably be made so that it can be easily disassembled (pegs or screws, I'm not really sure how Dad wants to do that yet).

(Semi Off- Topic Question: Also, since my corn is 16" at approx 3-4 mos (not exactly sure), do you think s/he will get to big for that size of cage? I feed once a week.There'll definitely be plenty of climbing space as I know s/he likes that so far.)

I was thinking about attempting to put in wiring for dimmer switch/thermostat options, but since I don't know much about wiring, that decision will probably be left up to Dad.

As for the cage itself, the traffic and stress from having three clear sides will be somewhat negated if I have it on a pull-out shelf, correct? Then most of the time those two sides would be effectively opaque.

And for ventilation, would a screen top be plenty? I really like your converted drains, crtoon83, makes me wonder if that could perhaps be done with mesh as well in a circular frame. Or I could just drill holes in the two sides if a screen top is not enough.

What kind of clasps/locks would be best for the front door of the cage? Key locks would be a bit overboard, I think, but would the slide-locks (the kinds you see alot on restroom stall doors) be enough? Or is there a better kind than that? The cabinet magnetic ones definitely wouldn't cut it, I think.

Is 4" for a front substrate dam too high, or not high enough? For the inside bottom of the cage I will go with the FRP or expanded PVC, it sounds a bit easier to work with.

And as nice as those RHP's look, I'll stick with the UTH and basking bulb I have now, probably just upgrade to a bigger UTH.

Sorry for all the questions, etc, again. Do you guys have any other advice/information I should take into account? Thanks!

-Redkite7

PS: crtoon83, technically I'm not allowed to have a snake in the dorms either (we're only supposed to have "fish" or other "aquatic only" animals in no more than a 25 gal) but my RA is nice, and knows I won't be irresponsible... she made the mistake of letting one girl have a ferret last year that was never cleaned up after.

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http://redkite7.deviantart.com
Poor College Student: Email me about Pet Portraits!

Look okay?

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http://redkite7.deviantart.com
Poor College Student: Email me about Pet Portraits!