Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a pair of jungle corns that began regurgitating on a regular basis lately, for months now they been fine, and about 3weeks ago I noticed every time I feed them one of the two or both brought it back up within days. It's not heat because they have adequate heat, and the size of the prey isn't the issue either. so what could it be?

Sorry for the pic, just felt I had to post it.

I may be wrong, and this has nothing to do with the re-gurge problem, but I think that may be bad substrate for the corns. If they ingest that I think they could get impacted.
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2.2.0 crested geckos (Speckles, Sunshine, Soldier, Sandy)
0.1.0 Striped Cal. Kingsnake (Snuggles)
1.1.0 Green Iguanas (Sisco,Speedy)
1.1.0 Emperor Scorpions (Strongbad,Serenity)
1.0.0 Rose Hair Tanrantula (Star)
1.0.0 Pink Toe Tarantula (Sal)

Hey Thanx, i checked out the product before i purchased it. they can digest it, alot of people think it's corn comb bedding but it's a desert blend lizard litter. I've had all my snakes on this with no prob., and it holds moisture and doesn't smell as much as other things. it also gives a more natural look to their enclosure (well if you keep um as pets that is). easy to clean as well instead of removing the whole thing, you remove just the potion that was soiled. kinda like with cat litter

Well than that sounds good! As for the regurgitating problem, I had the same problem with my striped cal. king last week. There was no change in temps that i realized, but here is what someone told me in my post...

Quote from "BlueKing."- "Maybe you thought there was no temperature change. What about nighttime temps? I know that this time of year a lot of folks' homes get a little cooler and most people don't recognize the subtle change in temps because of the much cooler temps outside - But snakes do! This is the most common problem of partially digested regurgitated meals this time of year. The snakes cannot digest properly if kept too cool. And if the snakes brumation instinct is kicked in it may become confused and eat and then "change it's mind" because of a larger than usual temperature fluctuation OR the onset of drier air (during this time it's usually less humid in most states)..." -Zee

This may help, it helped me. I had said the same thing, that the temps have been the same. I cleaned out my snake's cage and added a little more heat and humidity(at night) by misting her cage a little and keeping a low-wattage night time heat lamp on one side of her cage. This seems to have fixed the problem! Hope that helps! good lick - Joe

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2.2.0 crested geckos (Speckles, Sunshine, Soldier, Sandy)
0.1.0 Striped Cal. Kingsnake (Snuggles)
1.1.0 Green Iguanas (Sisco,Speedy)
1.1.0 Emperor Scorpions (Strongbad,Serenity)
1.0.0 Rose Hair Tanrantula (Star)
1.0.0 Pink Toe Tarantula (Sal)

Interesting, but the thing is, it isn't like the first time this has happened, so I'm leaning more to some kind of intestinal problem ... but i won't be sure till i take the pair to the vet with a fecal sample... i had a cali king that had that problem and it turned out she couldn't defecate so she had no choice but to bring it back up, she ended up dying. so I'm taking no chances with these.

Sounds like a good idea...good luck! - Joe
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2.2.0 crested geckos (Speckles, Sunshine, Soldier, Sandy)
0.1.0 Striped Cal. Kingsnake (Snuggles)
1.1.0 Green Iguanas (Sisco,Speedy)
1.1.0 Emperor Scorpions (Strongbad,Serenity)
1.0.0 Rose Hair Tanrantula (Star)
1.0.0 Pink Toe Tarantula (Sal)

Was the king on the same sand? If the sand blocked the intestinal track, then it wouldnt be albe to defecate and bring it back up. It may be due to substrate injestion.

You have a point ... but I don't feed my snakes in their enclosure. So there is no way for them to ingest any thing else but the food.

Thanx thou.
~ZF

Do you know what caused this in the king? There may just be another issue we are all overlooking. Do you have records of what it was in the king? If you have that, you can probably bet it is similar. Maybe they got ahold of some internal parasites from outside. Do they defecate at all? Inspect it, sometimes you can see movement, that would signal internal parasitation.

The Jungles "go" just fine ... the king however looked like she was constipated every time she "went" ... and what ever came out was watery, and greenish in color. I was also told he had a bile leakage so on top of the fact she couldn't "go" and along with the fact that she couldn't keep anything down, she was being slowly poisoned by her own body. luck was just not on her side.

I have said many times, it WAS the temp. fluctuation. Her poop is fine, and since that one occassion and before that one time, she has and is pooping normal.
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2.2.0 crested geckos (Speckles, Sunshine, Soldier, Sandy)
0.1.0 Striped Cal. Kingsnake (Snuggles)
1.1.0 Green Iguanas (Sisco,Speedy)
1.1.0 Emperor Scorpions (Strongbad,Serenity)
1.0.0 Rose Hair Tanrantula (Star)
1.0.0 Pink Toe Tarantula (Sal)

Scratch that last post, I thought you guys were talking about MY king, not the other person's. Sorry lol.
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2.2.0 crested geckos (Speckles, Sunshine, Soldier, Sandy)
0.1.0 Striped Cal. Kingsnake (Snuggles)
1.1.0 Green Iguanas (Sisco,Speedy)
1.1.0 Emperor Scorpions (Strongbad,Serenity)
1.0.0 Rose Hair Tanrantula (Star)
1.0.0 Pink Toe Tarantula (Sal)

No the king wasn't on sand, it was just a temp. fluctuation over night. She is fine now. -Joe
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2.2.0 crested geckos (Speckles, Sunshine, Soldier, Sandy)
0.1.0 Striped Cal. Kingsnake (Snuggles)
1.1.0 Green Iguanas (Sisco,Speedy)
1.1.0 Emperor Scorpions (Strongbad,Serenity)
1.0.0 Rose Hair Tanrantula (Star)
1.0.0 Pink Toe Tarantula (Sal)

I used to use that substrate, always thought it was SO pretty! Then one day the family were playing some board game, and I look up and saw one of my very prized cal kings flailing about his cage... I said "I think he's going to regurgitate... and he did.... then flew around his cage with his mouth open, and blood started to splatter on the sides of the cage (laceratiosn from all the walnut shell edges in his open mouth as he slithered)... I pulled him out instantly and held him.... He calmed down right away, and I was able to clean his mouth out. My thought on the crushed walnut substrate is that regardless what the label says (no laws requiring testing before they make their claims on the label) it is NOT digestible. I believe that it can irritate the mouth, throat, or even the stomach, and/or lead to impaction... if it has irritated the lining of the stomach it might be a LONG time (if ever) before the animal heals. When you say one or the other regurges... does this mean you aren't sure who is regurging (housed together)? I would make sure the snakes are separate, give them at LEAST ten days, but probably two weeks off of food, house them on papertowels, then start with a very TINY food item. If you feed pre-killed then make an incision into the gut of the food animal so that the digestive juices can work faster, keep the heat up.

Sorry.... some of these suggestions/thoughts might already be shared in the thread... had enough time to read all the messages or to post my own, and feel strongly enough about the crushed walnut to have to post!
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~Sasheena

Hey Sasheena, That's unfortunate, I've never had that problem and hope I never do.

OK let go down the list

1. i don't feed any of my snakes on the bedding, i feed all my snakes in a smaller container. on newspaper. i use to feed them on it when i just got it but i hated to see is all over the f/t food. so i gotta weigh my options, do you know of any substrate that suitable for snake and good for display. I don't mind having my other "non-display" animals on newspaper but I don't wanna keep the ones in my living room on newspaper.

2. When I say one or the other regurgitates I mean some times the male will regurg, some times the female will, and some time they both would bring it back up. i know which of the two brings it up because I've since separated the two.

Thanx for the Info.
~ZF

>> do you know of any substrate that suitable for snake and good for display.

hi ZF,

i have good luck with CareFresh. It's recycled newsprint. who hasn't chewed a little bit of newspaper into a wad, eh? I have to believe that even if/when ingested, it would be about as harmless as a substrate could be.

it's not as pretty as a soil bottom with ferns & moss & etc., but sometimes it might be necessary to compromise appearance before compromising function. Or maybe someone will come up with a solution that requires no compromise.

td

Hey thanx, I've heard of it I've seen others use it... I don't mind using it for my animals that no one notices on a regular basis, but I need a good "display" bedding.

I'm glad to hear you don't feed in the cage on the substrate (which WAS my mistake early on when I first owned snakes and used the Lizard Litter)... So the snakes would not have/ could not have ingested any during feeding... but sometimes a snake will get substrate in the mouth even when not feeding.... My thought is that one or two kernels of this stuff, if accidentally ingested when your snake yawns, could cause a damaging cycle of regurgitation. My hope is that it is something that simple that will correct itself given time... and that it isn't something more sinister.

Sorry if I sounded grumpy or accusatory in my earlier message.... it was early and I was in a hurry.

Good luck, your snakes are very beautiful!
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~Sasheena

Hey Sasheena, I didn't think u were being "grumpy or accusatory" in your earlier message, I appreciate your post I didn't even realize what I was using was crushed walnut till you informed me.
all info is good info.
thanx
~ZF

If it is crushed walnut, then read on -
Sometimes it is very helpful to try and eliminate possible causes. Although I used crushed walnut for awhile with no issue, I have heard of some people having bad luck with it. I don't know the details, but just in case, why not go to newspaper for a few weeks and see if anything changes? Newspaper is very benign.

It is important for you to wait at least 7 days before attempted feedings right now. Meals should be very small. Provide fresh water, but not when feeding or a few days after.
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Mark G
Collection:
Assorted CA rosies
A few Ariz mtn kings

I don't think it's crushed walnut bedding. but i will 2x check the bag 2 make sure.
Thanx!
~ZF

don't be too quick to assume "I've had all my snakes on this (substrate) with no prob"--the fact is, you have "a pair of jungle corns that began regurgitating on a regular basis lately" and "a cali king that had that problem and it turned out she couldn't defecate so she had no choice but to bring it back up, she ended up dying."

your substrate might be fine. but it might also be one that occasionally causes problems, and the three snakes you've mentioned could describe a problem related to it, rather than "no prob". Obviously depends on when the cali king got impacted, when you started using the substrate, whether these 3 examples are out of a collection of 100 snakes, or ten snakes, etc.

but keep your mind open to possibilities. and good luck with them.

peace
terry

Hey Terry, you have a good point but I don't think it's the substrate... I've been using it since 2000. the cali king i referred to died long b4 i got my jungle corns, she was an `03 and she died in `04. i isolated her when i noticed the problem and disinfected all the things that was in the enclosure when she died. i have a small collection, don't have space for more than 25 but i have 17 snakes at the moment.

ZF,
Since I have all my snakes in display cages I really like and have had no problems with Coconut husks for at least 5 years of keeping them on it. Some good manufacturers of Coconut husk products are #1 Creature Travelers at www.CreatureTravelers.com and #2 T-Rex produces it also. I like to use the chips and Creature travelers has many different sizes and they're a better quality. Hope that helps as another option for a safe, good display substrate. I have pic of some behind my Jungle Corn, sorry I don't have a terrerium picture up yet. Good luck on getting over your jungles regurgitation problems, one positive thing to remember about snakes is how resiliant and hardy they are to overcoming problems. Alot of herpers had great ideas and one of them ought to work.
Happy Herping,
Uncloudy