Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This article is a good example of what the humane society and organizations like them are doing for us. In the ad link, you will see the article that was published today. The law goes into effect Jan. 1st 2005. Andy

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if people dont stand up to them now.. they can ruin it for ALLLL herpers in the country in the future !! what a damn shame !! i am a pit bull owner and unfortunately have to keep my dogs 2 counties away because of this kind of ignorance !! what will be next ?? the ownership of cars ?? since they kill more people than all animals combined ?? what bullsh_t !!! this makes me incredibly angry and upset !! i hope that if most people love their animals as much as they say they do , they will stand up and fight these ridiculous laws !! thats all i have and want to say at the moment !! koky !
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NO BEAUTY LIKE THE BEAUTY OF A TRUE REDTAIL !!

If they really wanted to ban folks from owning animals they should band cats. They run wild, carry disease and can be a nuisance. I think they would pose more of a risk out there than a couple of venomous snakes.

While I agree that someone without extensive venomous experience should not be allowed to keep a venomous snake they should not completely ban them. The same is applied to large constrictors. They should get together with other herpers and determine the intelligent way of doing this.

Perhaps they should have a law where locks should be placed on the cages or every large constrictor and venomous reptile in an owner's collection. Also each owner should provide feeding records to show that they are responsible owners. I dare to all these critters pets because I think of pets as "something you pet". If you are petting a black mamba then you are insane.

As far as the exotic mammals. They should have them all observed by a vet once they arrive in the state. They should then be treated for whatever diseases that can be transmitted to any other mammal before sold.

Sale of any critter should not be allowed to someone that has not had any exposure to them. There should be tests given for each animal in their care that must be passed with an 80% score. Correct caresheets should be given to those that pass the tests so that nothing is forgotten. Also on the caresheets should be references for owners to good resources and perhaps contacts to veteran owners of their animal. I know I would not mind helping out where I know I can.

What do you all think of that?
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9 Leopard Geckos 2.7.0**
1 Tokay Gecko 1.0.0*
2 Ball Pythons 2.0.0*
1 04 Nicaraguan Red Tail Boa 0.1.0
2 Black Kingsnake 1.0.1*
4 Baird's Rat Snake (Thanks Vadoni!) 2.2.0
***1.0 Loma Alta***1.2Hawkeye 04 stock***
2 Gray Ratsnakes 0.1.1
1 04 Amel Cornsnake 0.1
1 04 Anery Cornsnake 1.0
4 Dekay's Snake 0.1.3**
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum nebulosum*
1.1 Green Tree Frogs (H. cinerea)*

0.0.1 Red Milk
1.0.0 Mexican Black/California King Hybrid (Missing)
1 Leopard Gecko 1.0

*indicates possible breeders
**have bred

Those are all good ideas but what it boils down to is this....

Lawmakers won't take the time to research OR enforce any law that herpers would think of as fair for large boids and other banned reptiles. A lot easier for them to just outlaw them, which is the route they always take. It's funny, there's no way they can enforce the laws. Unless they get complaints from neighbors or whatnot, how are they supposed to know who has one of the species mentioned in their house?

Kneejerk lawmaking for a few freak incidents which happened throughout the country. And a way to get some extra bucks from those people who actually do get their animals registered.

New York state is backwards in a lot of ways.... like the Ferret Registration thing. Had to have a license to have ferrets in the past, but then they finally revoked it since there is absolutely no proof anywhere of feral ferret colonies surviving up here.

I'm just glad that the list of restricted snakes is pretty short (venomous aside of course)... though why they banned YELLOW anacondas, which get nowhere NEAR as large as green anacondas... I have no idea. My sympathies to those burmese, rock python, amethistine python owners....

Even though it would be difficult to set up, fund, and operate to an extent to prevent or atleast fight against legislation like this we as exotic pet keepers need to stand together and form some sort of organization that collects statistical data, and tries to become a true respected group. Even a small group can become a force that is looked at and listened too... Hell for example, there is only one Nurses association that is Nationally recognized, and it is here in KS (I think it is the KS Nurses Org or something along those lines) And it is small enough that my wifes supervisor is the President, but they are recognized by the US Congress and go in front of them when issues regarding Nursing, Patient care etc are questioned.

We as a community need to stand together and fight for the rights of ALL reptile and exotic keepers regardless if you feel it is something that should or shouldn't be owned (it is a narrow minded standpoint to say "I should be allowed to keep leopard geckos, but Joe Schmoe shouldn't be allowed to keep cobras or retics", that is the same mindset that is held be those who want ALL exotics banned.)

I believe Jason at Classic Dum's was looking into trying to start an organization and a few others as well, we need to all try and support the building of something to unify all of us..

I'll quit rambling now and go get my caffiene.

Later
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

That is a good idea. I do not know about you, but I'd volunteer time for such an organization. I don't think those with knowledge of their animals should be not allowed to own them.
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My Critters

6 Leopard Geckos 2.4.0
1 Tokay Gecko 1.0.0
2 Ball Pythons 2.0.0
2 Black Kingsnake 1.0.1
4 Baird's Rat Snake (Thanks Vadoni!) 2.2.0
***1.0 Loma Alta***1.2Hawkeye 04 stock***
2 Gray Ratsnakes 0.1.1
1 04 Amel Cornsnake 0.1
1 04 Anery Cornsnake 1.0
4 Dekay's Snake 0.1.3
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum nebulosum
1.1 Green Tree Frogs (H. cinerea)

Critters under my care

7 Red Milk Snakes 02,04
2 Mexican Milk Snakes
2 Black King snakes 03
2 Mexican Black/California King Hybrids
11 California Kingsnakes
1 Eastern Kingsnake
11 Graybanded Kingsnakes
2 Baird's Rat Snake
1 Yellow Rat Snake
1 Everglades Rat Snake
35 Corn Snakes
2 African house snakes
1 Green Tree Python
2 Boa c. constrictor
1 Mottled Rock Rattlesnake

Nothing about this law is about animal rights or animal safty. Animal rights activists seem to be more concerned with the conditions used in exporting/importing of animals, taking animals from the wild and the poor care givin to many exoctics pets such as the thousands of iguanas sold every year to people who know nothing of their care. Some of these concerns have improved the hobby. This law seems to be based solely out of fear and ignorance.

Large constricting snakes is kind of vague. I assume this bans all boas. What a SHAME!

I will add NY to the list of states I'll never live in
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0.1 BCI
1.1 Dumeril's Boas
1.1 Okeetee
2.0 Motley Sunglow, Bloodred
0.2 Motley Sunglow, Ghost

"Large constricting snakes is kind of vague. I assume this bans all boas. What a SHAME!"

Actually, it bans Burms, Retics, Green/Yellow Anacondas, Rock Pythons, Australian Amethystine Python,and the Indian Python. There was an amendment to the bill because Pataki wouldn't sign it in it's then current state. So most of the Bodiae family is safe.

mostly everyone is so stinking worried about themselves, no body wants to volunteer time, energy and money to get something up and going to fight back. Everytime this issue comes up people get all hot and heavy and want to do something but a week after it dies down everyone forgets and goes back to their lives, Ive tried several times to get something up and going, hell im still working on it I got a couples ideas now I hope will work but well see, I dont know if this clause made it to the final draft but what I loved most about the NY law was the clause that read something like this(dont qoute me im doing this out of memory) "any registered person for the ethical treatment of animals may enforce this law" like I said thats out of memory but it was something to that effect anyway from what I understoud PETA and the Humane Society could enforce the law, anyway its not their fault they are just doing their thing, as warped and twisted as we believe the humaniacs are they are just doing what we beleive in. Just about any other kind of animal group out there like us, on a national level has some kind of org to fight back, their people put money, time and effort into it, what do we have? Herp societies, thats it and im not knocking herp socities but heck 9 out of 10 herp socities dont even communicate with each other, I dont every see it happneing but the best thing that could happen would be something on the national level that every reptile person in the US got behind, 2nd best is an infomation network to speed up the flow of info to already existing groups, making use of whats their but who knows
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders