Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A coworker of mine mentioned that near her building and in the yard around it, they frequently see snakes. She also told me that there is a group of men in the building who go out and as a group club to death any snake they know of and procede to brag about it, or in the case of one individual, claim they have done god's work in killing satan (and they are serious).

Besides hoping for darwin to take these obviously unevolved cave people, does anyone know where we can look up some laws for our state (North Carolina) that might help us convince them otherwise?

On the plus side, we work for the government, and this is government property, so if we knew the laws we could make the proper stink in order to make it enforced that animals should not be bludgeoned to death at work.

keep on with this tree hugging and every state will pass laws to protect all the reptiles,none of us will ever be able to enjoy or work with wild caught animals again.When Alabama first protected the box turtle,(Not sure if they have stats to back up this stupid law)my daughter had a few in a pen ,I was questioned about them,my response was arrest a 9 year old and lets see what happens.They chose not to bother with it.If we learn to educate instead of passing a law every time something bothers us we will all be better off.

I agree with you, Terry. Unfortunately, education is difficult at best with people that don't want to be educated, don't care about herps and just enjoy killing them because they are there. The other side of that coin is that more laws aren't going to stop that ignorance either, so education is the only viable method we have. We just have to keep talking and trying.

Some of the protection laws are basically good...for instance, Alabama's protection of Black Pine Snakes, Gopher Tortoises, Eastern Indigo Snakes, etc. The problem with them is that they don't allow for privately breeding them in captivity, which in my opinion would reduce the pressure of illegal collecting. Part of the reason for the way the laws are written is the fear that people would take it upon themselves to release their captive born animals into the wild populations (which would, in fact, cause problems) and the fact that it would be difficult to differentiate between a wild caught Black Pine Snake or Gopher Tortoise and a captive born one, making the laws nearly impossible to enforce. They don't have the manpower to track every captive born animal of a protected species and it's offspring.

I lived in Mobile County when the Gopher Tortoises came under protection and had several in captivity that I had kept for years. The law was written to grandfather in anyone who was keeping them at the time they came under protection and the DNR would come out and place tags in the carapace of your tortoises and issue you a permit for those animals. I had moved out of Alabama before the Box Turtles came under protection so I don't know how that was handled.

Actually Black Pines and Indigos can be kept and bred in Alabama you just have to have a permit which is only a $35 per year deal. Also the ones sold within the state are fine even without a permit so long as captive bred records are kept. Not sure on the tortoises though.

Phil

How did you get "tree hugger" from wanting to stop fellow government employees from taking tax payer money (in the form of time) to bludgeon to death a helpful animal. I make no suggestion of creating laws, only finding suitable existing rules or laws to help encourage these employees to act like adults on the job.

I've never been called a tree hugger before, usually it's redneck, hick, hillbilly, or something along those lines, and it's coming from what I would consider a "tree hugger" type of person. Perhaps your definition is different.

I did a search of North Carolina laws, and could not come up with any that covered killing snakes, except those that are specifically protected as Endangered or Threatened species. It seems that North Carolina is one of those states that still consider snakes as "pest animals". I'm not even sure that you could get action under one of the Animal Cruelty laws. The way they are written it is to cover "dumb animals", which seems to include things like horses, mules, dogs, cats, etc.

I live in North Carolina too. Just would like to know what part you are in. Because I know in some places you can not kill snakes because some are protested and you can get in trouble for killing them. As for you being called a tree hugger I wouldnt like that to good because I have never know anyone from NC being one of them. We are just good ole county people or Just plain rednecks!!!!!!!!
-----
Here today and gone tomorrow.
MsRhinoviper@aol.com

I live in the boondocks, but these incidents are taking place in Durham.

Well tree hugger must have struck a nerve,some of us care about all animals and some dont,I have dealt with the people that believe the only good snake is a dead one.my point is to educate not force to abide by some rules or laws,I work for the goverment here in Al,one of my bosses no longer kills every snake he sees because he has watched me handle numerous snakes and realizes they have a place here,This is just my opinion,if we try to stop all the things we dont like we will have nothing left.I do not think your issue is about tax dollars you just want to stop the killing of the snakes at any cost.Why not offer to remove the snakes for them?

I've extended the offer to move them, but these guys are going out into a large grassy area surrounded by woods and looking for things to kill (legless reptile things). One of them has now taken it upon himself to "do the work of the lord" and kill the evil snakes because he believes they are satan. I'm guessing I'd have no chance of convincing them otherwise at this point.

And believe it or not, I view everything as costing tax dollars. I really do think the citizens deserve government employees that effectively use their time to the greatest advantage of the community, thereby being efficient employees (yes I realize the irony of working for a government agency and hoping for efficiency).

The Bible does make mention of the devil taking the form of a. serpent,some things can not be changed,unfotunately we have to accept that fact

Yes the Bible does say that but a snakes is a living thing just like any other animal. He created all of them. Just like he did us and they were here before we were Right?
-----
Here today and gone tomorrow.
MsRhinoviper@aol.com

interesting the conflicting views from members of the same religion... Not having a religion I just tend to view every living thing as a life, and not one to merely kill uselessly for my own entertainment.

No, I doubt I could change his mind, or any of theirs. The others seem to think it makes them extremely manly and will make the women attracted to them. Of course, most women are no longer interested in being bashed on the head and dragged into a cave by their hair, so I think these guys' genes may have a good chance of not getting passed on.