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The originator of this discussion, tupinambis, was banned for unknown reasons. It's a pity because the information coming out was very interesting to most of us.

I didn't see it as a scientific name vs common name debate, or a "you are wrong, I am right" debate. It was more of a "Let's find out where the blue tegu originates from." and it was starting to appear as if there was good reason to research deeper.

I do not stand on either side, at this point I am just curious about the actual origins and this discussion seemed to be getting somewhere when it was cut off short.

For those interested we can still continue the discussion with tupinambis.

Rick
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It would be nice to continue the discussion. I was in the middle of a post asking if tupinambis was in fact banned and was wondering if anyone had contact info for him. I was going to contact him and and suggest your exact solution. I agree with KofSeattle and Russ! I do not think it was offensive and I believe a great exchange of information could have come out of it.

I imagine Colin is still out there or if someone has his contact info please pass it on to me. Thanks for the help.

tc5000@earthling.net
Please put Tegu in the subject line so I can find it in my spam filter. Thanks again.

tupinambis is already on theTegu.com so you can contact him via the forums there.

Rick
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I recieved quite a few emails over this issue since this began so I am going to clear some air here so there are no misconceptions.

First and foremost we listed the Blue Tegu as (T. teguixin sp) based on animal origin (Colombia). The limited literature that I have access to stated that the tegu that occurs in Colombia is T teguixin. Obviously its not the typical T teguixin but we are not biologists or researchers and have NEVER claimed as such. As a matter of fact it is of no consequence to me the exact species. My only interests are that they breed in captivity and do well and it simply stops there. I have zero interest in the science behind this. I am a simple man attempting to produce nice animals for the pet trade. Nothing more and nothing less. This is my passion and my life and has been since I was a child.

I advised Stella to refrain from answering tupinambis based on his hostlie tone he took towards us from the get go. I simply will not be involved with anyone who takes an openly hostile tone towards myself or my business. My reputation stands on its own and I have nothing to defend or apologize for. I have nothing against the academic community and when legitemately consulted I have always worked with them in the past as the numerous times we have been sited in various books and publications bears itself out. I have always freely given my time to such undertakings and am still doing so to this day.

The simple fact is that there was no proof this person was even a real researcher and in all my years involved in this business none of them have EVER approached me in such an unprofessional manner. And before anyone starts assuming that it was me who had him banned let me clear the air that it was his slanderous comment about a reptile publication that resulted in his banning and this is evidence in the deletion of blue_tegu's post where he quoted tupinambis's slanderous phrase.

This is the last post we will make on this matter. I welcome anyone who can come to a conclusion as to what exactly the Blue Tegu is and wish them the best of luck and I'm quite sure that someone with the proper credentials will do so. Tegu taxonomy appears to be a mess and its a subject that is admittedly well out of my league.

Hope all the forum readers have a safe and great holiday season,
Ron St Pierre

Hello Ron,

Let me state for the record, my goal in learning the details of the proper classification is merely in the name of knowledge. I have made points stating I do indeed think you are doing a great job breeding blues and that I have great respect for you for that. I also stated that it isn't even important who specifically or originally labeled the blue tegu with the name Tupinambis teguixin ssp. My only goal is to continue the discussion based on the fact that scientifically the blue tegu does appear to be Tupinambis merianae, based on not only temperment, but on the meristic characters as well. Such as the t.teguixin has one loreal scale, and the t.merianae has two. Up until now I assumed all Blue Tegus has one loreal scale, like the t.teguixin, but after this discussion we see that all of the Blue Tegus we have seen so far do indeed have two loreal scales. A trait of the t.merianae.

Again, you are great breeders and I have personally recommended you and your business. I did so again just yesterday. There are no harsh feeling from me or hopefully the others in this discussion, we just want to get to a better understanding.

I thank you for your comment and personally appologize for any distress this has caused you. That was never my intention.

Sincerely,

Rick
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Rick,

Never in any way did anyone other than tupinambis take what I considered to be hostlile tone. No apologies needed by anyone.

One thing about the loreal scale is according to Presch-Review of Tupinambis where he examined over 100 specimens of (tupinambis) he found that the loreal scale can vary from 1-3 within the same locality. I have always made is known when asked that the Blue Tegu has a split loreal scale and it was this fact that we put the ssp behind the latin name. The Presch review was one of the few pieces of tegu information at the time and I will admit that over the years my interests outside of Herpetoculture have consumed my time so I am very much "out of the loop" on newer publications and the like. I hadn't looked at the Presch review in years and had it long forgotten until Stella dug it up and presented it to me just a few minutes ago.

Thank you again for your reply to my comment and for your understanding. I would like to go beyond the loreals and check the other meristic characters. The loreals alone tell us very little since there are other tegus with two loreals as well.

If you have or locate any information on this subject I would like very much if you would share it with me. You can contact me at tux @ thetegu.com

Thank you very much,

Rick
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Hi Ron.

Just FYI, I'm speaking for myself here but I would bet that there isn't a single poster on this forum who thought even for a second that your credibility was being challenged, no matter what Tupinambis might have said. Your credentials and contributions are obvious (as well as Bert Langerwerf's) and no one has done more to make sure tegu enthusiasts get the best animals and the right information to keep their animals going strong.

Personally, I viewed those personal jabs as the heat needed to spark the discussion. I was quite impressed with the way the forum folks participated, and thought it was great that they took the time to take and post new pictures. Heck, it even got me off my butt to take and post another picture of my blue tegu.

Anyway, I hope you guys are doing well. My tegu sure is.

Regards,

Bill