Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So their site says there is a trick to getting them to turn into beetles and breed. When I ordered them in I held back 1000 to play with and try to figure it out. I took 100 and put them in film cans (superworm method), they died. I took 100 and cooled them (I read somewhere about a winterizing process), they died. I just went in and checked the bin with the other 800 and I must have 600 aliens and 50 beetles in there. Treat them just like any other mealworm. Keep them in proper bedding, not the crap they come in, and I put a couple sheets of newspaper over the bin then mist them down once a day, that's it. I still don't have any babies from them but beetles are the first step lol. Oh, they've also been in the closet in the baby beardie room and it sits at about 80-85 ambient temp in there and they've been in there for about 2 weeks.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

if you want to breed mealworms you are better off leaving them in the general population and they will turn into larvae. Once they do that I remove them and put them in a shoe box with peat. I just keep dumping the larvae in and letting them convert to beetles. The beetles will breed if you feed them and after a month or so I will remove all living beetles and put them in another container to continue. Add some cornmeal or oatmeal to the peat so the worms have something to eat and you will begin to see the substrate move eventually as worms grow. Feed them veggies and watch em' grow.

For Superworms you will have far greater success removing the worms and isolating them. They will usually begin their conversion within a week. I use hobby boxes that have 20 cubicles in one box like a tackle box. If you place them in a film container they will suffocate if you dont give them airholes. Once they switch to larvae continu with the same steps.

I have also found that meal worm beetles seem to live a LOT longer and will be more productive breeders. 1000 super worms should last a lifetime if you wanted it to.

Mike
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.

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Awesome! That's great to know! So much for the little trick..ROFL.... Have you noticed a growth spurt more so than average in any of your hatchlings yet?
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Not yet, but Betty's been off of work for a couple weeks and been feeding crix like 7-8 times a day so we'll see what happens when they go back down to 3 times a day lol.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

If you guys what to see the posts the Minimealworms guy has made or the correspondence he has had with me please feel free to e-mail: bcrazy_jen@yahoo.com

Again the thing in reptile magizine IS a PAID advertisement. The owner of minimealworms.com IS NOT trustworthy. He has NOT put ANY research into his product. He does NOT know the nutritional content and has not even had these insects analyzed by a lab. He does not understand reptile nutrition. He is FULL of false claims and praise for his worms BUT NOTHING BACKING IT UP. His products should be considered dangerous until he starts backing his claims with ANY and I means ANY type of research.

Does anyone actually believe that minimealworms accounted for the size difference of those dragons? And to put that up as the only PROOF that the insects are a good choice is extremely ignorant. Raising a young dragons on only mealworms of any type is likely to stunt growth and cause MBD because no amount of dusting can balance the HIGH phospohrus level. Its simply not possible without injecting the worms with calcium before feeding them to the dragon. The pics are more likely evidence of Adeno in that persons collection.

If you want to see the forum where this guy tried to defend his TOTAL lack of research just e-mail me. Its very scary.
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reasearch? DO you know a lab we could have the nutritional value checked at? Or about how much something like that would cost? I agree he should have done something of this nature but why would a breeder publically lie about her experience? Seems that when the truth came out.... and it usually does.... she would be ruined to a certain extent...... Not trying to defend this guy but really why would she do that? For free worms?..... I can't really see her doing that..... course people do strange things sometimes...LOL But who would a person contact to get that research done? SHould be fairly inexpensive right?

Thanks,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

I wanted to comment on the size difference of the two dragons I saw on his site. It is possible that those are from the same clutch and have that great of a size difference regardless of the diet they are being fed. In the pic below the two dragons are from the same clutch and only a couple days apart in age. They were fed the same exact diet. Some babies get big some don't. I don't think she's lying about the size difference or the age but the diet probably had nothing to do with it. Just about anyone could take the largest baby and smallest baby from any clutch and make an impressive size comparison. You need a lot more than one or two examples to verify it's the diet. I'm glad others are doing their own studies but it would be my guess that these aren't all that different from normal mealies. Hopefully they have a sofetr outer shell more similar to a superworm if they are getting fed in larger quantities.

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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.

____

!
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Hey Jen,

I know the guy hasn't proved anything or bothered to do a lot of the reserch he should have. That's why I'm running some test groups with them to see if there is an actual difference. So far I haven't seen any negative affects but I'm still not recomending them because that doesn't prove anything either. I wanted to see how real animals reacted to them instead of a bunch of numbers on a report so that's why I'm doing it this way. If someone else wants to send some off to a lab to get analysed great, please let me know the results. I didn't get any deals from him, I paid for them just like anybody else. So far I can say that I don't think they're just like regular mealworms and appear to be safer. I have fed a couple babies amounts that regular mealworms would have certainly impacted and have seen no signs of this. Again this isn't proof of anything, just my observations so far. When I'm done with my little experiment I'll write something up to add to the little info that is available on them and people can make their own decision.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

Its not really the insects that I am concerned about. They may be ok, they may not. I feel it is HIS responsibility to make sure that he is providing a safe product. I believe that people who make WILD claims like his should not be supported with the business of good keepers like you. I believe that there are many people stumbling across his site and believing all his unresearched hype and believeing it is TRUTH. I think this kind of business should never be supported regardless if his worms turn out to be safe.
I totally support your choice to use these worms with your animals, but just not from this guy. So, if you do get them to breed thats awsome (but just another bit of misinformation from this guy). He has actually taken some of the worst info off of the site (more nutritional then crickets, ect)which is GREAT but a lot of it is still there.
Why would that person lie? Perhaps she is a friend or family member (this is a totally unsupported guess other then they live within an hour of each other). I have to say she has a lot of skinny animals on her site. No really bad neglected ones, but everyone is at the very low side of normal weight. No fat stores on tails and tiny little legs. I am not going to take her word over real research. Perhaps he gave her free worms so that he could say "great success feeding to baby dragons" Perhaps she really did feed the little one crickets and the bigger one minimealworms and they are the same age, but WHAT age are they? If they are 8 weeks old then we KNOW that little dragon has big problems and the other is below average. There are VERY often small and slow growing animals in a clutch. I do not believe for a second that minimealworms have anything to do with the size difference. And I have a good knowledge of reptile nutrition and I can explaing scientifically why mealworms are a VERY poor choice as a staple especially for young reptiles (e-mail me if you want the speech, hehe). All this guy does is provide a picture without even telling what lenght, size, and gram weight the dragons are. Those dragons could represent anything.

It is very easy to get an analysis done. I have actually never paid for one because I have friends, so I don't knwo what it costs. But go to the biology department of the closest university. That is where I get things like this done.
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What I can't get over is the feeding response.... It is amazing to say the least... If oyu feed dusted crix along with these the beardies eat them as well because in my experience they hit a frenzy like staqte and eat anything that moves.... I would like to get a nutritional report on them though... high phospherous is definately a concern...... The impaction risk I would say is slim to none........ Before Daisy became a snack she showed no signs of ill effects on her digestive system......

Guess I'll caontact OSU and see if they can do a test for me.... I'll let you all know what i FIND OUT!!!

Laters,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Never used the worms myself, but since it is unlikely they are available from a Canada distributer, I am not going to pay the shipping to get them from the states. So, trying them isn't in my agenda. Costs me enough to get silkworms shipped to me from Mississauga which is a 4 hour drive.

The fact this retailer is selling a product without any sort of research other than feeding them to his animals and hoping for the best (from what others have posted), is interesting. The only way to know what the phospherous/calcium ratio is, fat, protein etc content of the minimealworms, is to have them tested. Any lab test costs money, I don't know how much though. Probably the cheapest way to do it (unless you can do it yourself) is find a University,college or trade school that provides lab technician or biology type classes. They may be happy to do a nutrician test on the minimealworms for free just for the practice.
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PHLdyPayne