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I've got 2 chucks a wc female I caught in August and a cb baby (looks to be male) I've had for about a month and a half. Both are currently housed in a 100 gallon tank. The female will not touch supplemented food, I've tried rep-cal and herptivite, the T-rex herbivore suppliment and Iguana Dust. Does anyone know of any other supplements she may find more palatable?

If you want some background on them, here's the whole / long story.

The female (Gracie) has been a picky eater from the get go and lost weight. She had initially been housed in a 70 gallon with sand, rocks, mercury vapor light etc. The hottest basking site was around 120 and the cool side was in the low 80's to mid 70's. I've tried just about everything possible in terms of food (I've read every post on this forum pertaining to feeding and if someone recommended something, and I could find it, it's been tried). I was at my wits end with her and she was dropping weight so I thought maybe if I get her a buddy, that knows how to eat from a bowl, and recognizes chopped greens as food she'll follow suite.

So, I ordered a baby cb chuck. Unfortunately, the baby came in looking like h*ll. It was all I could do to keep from crying when I saw him. So, he went into a 20 (I didn't want to put him with Gracie, in case he was sick). He was shipped from Florida, and I think it was pretty hard on him, but within about 2 weeks he was looking a lot better (gained 6 grams) and eating great. So, I got a 100 gallon tank and set it up for the two of them, and moved him in.

Having him around seems to have mellowed her a bit, she seems to be gaining weight (not as much as I'd like), and I've caught her eating on several occaisions now. The baby is very tame and will eat from my hand, and run up my arm when he wants to come out etc. I haven't handled Gracie since I moved her into the new tank (and I almost never handled her when she was in her old tank either, to minimize stress). The whole tank except for a small area by the basking site it is "wallpapered" as well for added security.

Any tips on getting Gracie to eat more would be appreciated. The baby also loves mealworms (Gracie won't touch insects of any kind) and I've been giving him one or two a day. He stays up until I get home from work waiting for his bugs How many should I give him? I assume he'll eventually out grow them?

Thanks!
Alice

P.S. I'm planning a plant collecting expedition to the desert (Mojave in CA) come spring, to collect some desert plants and try to get them going in my yard. So, any recommendations in terms of plants to target, would also be appreciated.

you can try frozen, whole, cut green beans, thaw them, then squeeze them dry in a paper towl. split them open halfways, and take a toothpick to dole out whatever supplement you are using and place it in between the 2 green bean halves. then close it back up, making sure none of the supplement falls on the outside of th egreen bean. then feed it to her, making sure she grabs it longitudinally, so that she swallows it easily without chewing it and beating it against the substrate. i have also used this method to feed them ground up alfalfa to make for firmer stools.

also a mixture of finely grated and chopped yam, yellow squash, and carrot is often unresistable for the little fellas.
good luck, ian

Neither of them seem to be too big on the grated squash or yams, although the baby (I really need to name him) will take shreds if I hold them. I'll try hiding the vitamins, I haven't tried f/t green beans although the fresh ones weren't a big hit. Are there any other supplements you'd recommend, other than the ones I listed? The baby has no problems with dusted food, so I'd be willing to give some other supplements a try to see if I can find one that they can both agree on.

I'm already waking up early so I can get a fresh salad prepared in the morning before I leave for work, so I'm all for saving time; but, if I have to resort to stuffing veggies, I'll do it ;oP

Thanks,
Alice

you are going about the whole situation correctly. The fact that she is now taking food is great and in my experiences will only improve. I would get her eating good without even worrying about supplements. Some wild caught chucks are very hard to acclimate to captivity. I would only offer the supplements every other day. This will give the female a chance to get used to them. If you offer 2 food bowls, one without supplements, I am afraid the male would eat those before the supplemented one. I think I have mentioned this before that some wild caught chucks can take up to a year to start eating properly. If she is now putting on weight I would not be too worried. I would probably not even worry about the desert plants. They seem to ignore the plants in captivity. I think that she is on her way to being a good captive just give her some more time. Also I have found that some hard feeders will take just common weeds pickes fom around my house. Ragweed seems to be a good one.

Alice-like Tom said below, if you have them starting to eat be glad, I would like to add my two cents in if you don't mind. I just want to assume that you have a UVA/UVB bulb either a fourescent 8.0 desert type or equivelant such as the ones from big apple or a mercury vaper bulb. If you have this in your cage the animals are getting the necessary stuff to assimlate what they are eating. I do supplement my young chucks, but not every day as Tom intimated. I have had very good luck with using "spring mix" you buy at the store, they seem to love it. I usually don't use mealworms, but superworms. You say the female won't eat any insects, well they are mostly vegetarians, but one thig if you haven't tried is waxworms. I had several females who would not look at an insect but would eat wax worms. So you might try buying 50 or so and try it, as the little one will probably eat them if she doesn't. It sounds like the rest of the lighting bask spot sounds good. Like Tom said I agree that wild weeds from your lawn or neigbors yard they usually relish, just don't use anything from a lawn that is sprayed or has been sprayed with pesticides. If you happen to have roses or hibiscus you might try that as Chucks usually have a hard time turning down flowers. Also as a last resort go to the nurserty and buy some sweet alysum in the littel small containers they put on a flat and buy three or four of them and stick them in the cage and see what kind of response you get. Again I think some chucks in the wild just don't aclimate well. Last of all I don't want to spend your money--and I think Tom or someone else should comment on this besides me, but if your lizard has some stomach bugs that is causing it not eat with vigor, you might consider having a fecal done by a reputable veternarian that works with reptiles. Chucks rarely get sick, and I am not saying that your aninmal is sick in anyway, but as a possible consideration you might want to do that, but I would ask some others on this forum to comment on this. It seems overall if the animals IS eating then as Tom said it may just be adjustment issues. Now for the very last of the last--if you happen to have dandelions or mistard green flowers (usually at this time of the year they are not avaiable) when ever they do become available I would go after those flowers as chucks can hardly resist them. Once they start eating them, I have actually had them follow me down the glass licking the glass to try and eat them. So I say your prognosis is very good, but I hope the extra few cents is worthwhile as well. I am not concerned about your animals health, and I think Tom has covered it - but I would hold open the option if the w/c just continues not to respond to such offerings. Oh and nustergiums are also a flower they seem to go for big time. Have a great day and let us know in awhile how things are going!! Cheers!!
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

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Thanks for the wonderful posts!

I was trying to get her eating before forcing the supplements. I was just worried that since it's been about four months, she might start developing problems if I didn't start forceing the issue soon.

I've been feeding nasturiums and they are a favorite as are the dandelions; dandelions are allowed to come up in the lawn, and in the flower bed. I'm also growing yellow pansies, moss roses, hibiscus, alfalfa, mint, cushion flowers, gazanias (not a hit), and roses (I made a fancy salad yesterday topped with chopped roase petals only to find that someone had dug out all the petals to get at the greens bellow). The Costco greens are also taken (I think it's pretty similar to the spring mix you mentioned). I've been buying on a rotating basis: collard greens, mustard greens, and cilantro (I've tried just about all the others sold, but these seem to be the most palatable). I also alternate between grated yellow squashes and yams (not hits).

I have tried superworms, mealworms, crickets and wax worms; all ignored by Gracie. The baby is too small to handle supers and since his weight has just about doubled in the time I've had him, I don't think that he needs the waxworms (he weighed in at 27 grams this morning, up from 14 when he arrived).

I have considered parasites, but the stools produced are always solid and well formed and food seems to have been fully digested. I weighed Gracie this morning for the first time in about a month and she is up 3 grams, 40 up from 37 Not a big gain,I know, but it's something.

They have a 100 watt mercury vapor bulb and 100 watt basking bulb over their warm side to give them basking sites with a range of temps. They have a Zoomed reptisun illuminating the cool side and another 50 watt basking bulb towards the middle. I've got a temp gun that I use to monitor the temperatures. When it warms up come summer, I may end up turning off some of the basking lights. The lights are also all on a timer and stay on for 12 hours. Gracie usually retires around 4pm but the baby's usually up till the lights go out (he knows he'll get mealworms if he waits for me to come home).

Before these two, I took care of the reptile room at college for about 3 years until I graduated. They have a wc chuck who's probably in his teens by now (if I remember correctly he was collected as a yearling around '92). He lives in a 40 gallon tank, and eats everything offered as long as you're not looking The room and animals were pretty neglected before I took it over, but Chuck seemed to have weathered it well. So I figured that since he was such a tough guy and has endured so much neglect, acclimating a wc couldn't be that hard Live and learn. A friend of mine who's still attending is taking care of the herps now and Chuck's still going strong.

I guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing and hope she keeps improving.

-Alice

This is a typical spread (as you can see someone already visited it). The basking site is up the cork to the right. If you look to the left, you can see Gracie's tail.

Here's Gracie on the cool side. I plan to add some more rocks. I've got a whole pile on stand by along with a caulking gun and some liquid nails.

If she has maintained that weight I would not be worried at all. If you are worried about her growing don't be. Like I have said before most wc chucks will go a year before they are that comfortable in captivity. Most will maintain if not lose some weight in that time. Then one day it will be like someone turned on the light in her head and she will take off. How about some pics of the little guy? Also if you feel like sharing I would like to know where you got him from to see if he was actually cb or if I know the person. You can do it in a private message if you don't want to say it in this forum. Tom

Here's a close up of Gracie looking up malevolently.

Here's the baby. He's just bellow the rocks illuminated by the mercury vapor lamp. He wedges himself under this rock every night. I think that his weight gain is making this harder and harder / tighter and tighter The first time I saw his tail sticking out of there I thought he'd smashed himself.

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Here's the baby hanging out in the big cork tube. The basking lamp hits this tube making it nice and toasty inside. This is where he likes to go when his tummy is full. I also hear the two of them crawling up the interior and exterior most mornings on their way to and from the high basking site and feeding station.

If anyone sees anything that needs to be improved / changed with any part of the set up, please let me know.

but they are a pain to take out and clean. If they seem comfortable with it I would leave it alone. Changing the cage can also make them go off feed for a while.

This pic is actually a couple of weeks old (he's even fatter now) and was taken right before I introduced him to Gracie. The tail kink near the tip of his tail was present when I got him.

Hi Alice,

If you decide you want to make a trip down here after all, let me know, because I live in the middle of the Mojave Desert, and many fields that contain ephemeral flowers, Creosotes etc. are literally down the street from my house. I'd be happy to show you somne, or make suggestions etc. Like I said, let me know.

-Phil

I'll definatly shoot you an email next time I'm planning on going. What is the best time of year plant wise? I've got a pack of desert wildflower mix I bought at the Jawbone Store. I plan on setting up a half wine barrel and seeing if I can get some going this spring. Do you know what their favorite native plants are?

Also, out of curiosity, what time of year do hatchlings start appearing? When I went out to get Gracie, I was looking for a small chuck, but she was the smallest one I saw and she is probably one of the previous year's hatchlings.

-Alice

Hatchlings usually start to show up in September. And are usually about the same size the next spring. I would say Gracie was probably 2-3 years old. Growth is much slower in the wild than in captivity

Wow, I had no idea... I probably would have reconsidered my decision to take her, if I'd known she was that old.

This is a pic I took of Gracie, the week I caught her. She's all blown up like a ballon, but my hand will provide some size perspective.

-Alice