Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok i put my female back in the laying bin because she is VERY lumpy and her appetite is slowly deminishing. And i know im susposed to leave her alone but if i leave her alone how do i know shes layed them because dont they cover their tunnels back up? Will she have different colors? Will she be physically weak? Also ijust peeked into the room and she was pacing around, either shes pissed shes in there or shes getting wrestless before laying.

Thanks for any help

It sounds as if you aren't always home in the middle of the day to observe a successful egg laying. But a quick outline on what to expect, and then fit it to your ability and opportuntiy to observe. The entire egg laying process is usually a 4-8 hour event, consisting of the excavation of a hole 4-10 inches deep, depositing of the eggs, and then reburying the site. Often holes can be dug, shallow and otherwise, and no eggs laid, as for some reason the female found it unsuitable. In about 10% of the cases, a female will fill in an excavated hole without laying. If you are there to observe any part of this sequence, it is easy to go and excavate after the female is done. But if not, there are still telltale signs. Most noticably, the female will no longer have a belly full of small marbles, and if not sure, you can gently palpate her abdomen and feel for them. Secondly, any female engaged in serious excavation will have noticable amounts of dirt adhering to her head and limbs. If you see a dirty female, but no sign of a hole, then odds are the deed is done. I have heard of hobbyists spreading a thin layer of sand on the surface of their medium, or actually burying a thin layer of colored sand about 1 inch beneath the surface, to indicate the approximate location of the dig based on observable disturbance. The effectiveness of this technique will vary though, based primarily on the amount of area provided for egg laying, false digs, etc. It is not uncommon for females to return to a hole begun the day prior, so if she begins to dig, and then abandons the spot, I would leave it be. Some females will also often come and go from the same hole several times in a day. And some don't waste any time, and dig promptly, lay, and rebury with no second thoughts. A female may also drop a couple of eggs in the days prior to a successful laying, as well as retain a couple after a laying, which are usually expelled within a few days, so if this is observed, it is not necessarily cause for alarm. But, too many false digs may indicate an unsuitable temperature or moisture problem. Good luck, and I hope it goes well for you. Jim at The Chameleon Company

Are you the same Jim from CoolCritters?
Cricket

No. My business is The Chameleon Company, LLC, located in central Florida. No website, as we are primarily wholesale breeders of chameleons. Don't know the person to whom you refer.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC

Jim & Laura Sharpe own & operate CoolCritters. They are in Michigan. I took the last of their female veileds. New Blood.
I was just wondering if you were the same person. I'm a breeder too, and am always looking to add to my existing breeder stock.
Cricket

I don't currently deal with veileds, although I have quite a bit in the past, and may again in the future. Our focus here is primarily with pardalis and some oustaleti. I occasionally post lot quantities in the classifieds. I try to check the forum once every few weeks to see if there are any good husbandry issues that have not been discussed at length recently. We have spent much of the last year holding back breeder quality animals and expanding our colony. We've got some great stuff, but felt it best to generate F-2 and F-3 generations from them. We are able to pursue many different husbandry techniques with statistically significant quantities of animals, and will be writing of it soon. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the general information out there now is only the tip of the iceberg, but it does take time to consolidate and publish. And there's a business to run. There are many reputable breeders out there now, and good bloodlines to be had. Good fortunes ........... Jim

her size will be key. But just let her be and go about your business with an occassional look in. They usually lay at night but begin digging during the day. If she is not having any problems she should lay all at once and the difference will be HUGE!! Check out the photos of Luna's before and after shots (her first clutch last May). If folks here didn't know me they'd have accused me of starving her! lol!

Also, if you do suspect serious problems be ready for a vet trip.

lele
Link

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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)

Unfortunately, I can only base my experience on what I have observed, and realize that the experience of others may be different. In the last three years, I have harvested about 500 panther chameleon clutches, and about 100 veiled clutches, and currently observe 1-2 clutches being laid daily. Over 99% of those clutches were laid primarily during the day, with about 10% being finished shortly after dusk. The overwhelming number of females that I have observed laying, that have not begun laying by sundown, will leave the hole and resume in the morning. The only instances that I have seen go past dusk were where laying had already begun, and this is not common. Nightime laying is definitely not the norm with every chameleon species that I have worked with !! All things are possible, but I cannot concur with conclusions about night time laying. LOL. Jim at The Chameleon Company

Well, obviously they don't follow any rules, huh? I certainly do not come close to your experience and probably should have said that the laying at night comment was based on Luna's preferred time and not an expert opinion - well, only her being an expert on herself!

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)

I couldn't agree more with there being no absolutes. While I have not witnessed what you have seen, it certainly stands as an observation of what can occur. There are hundreds of observations possible with egg laying, which while most follow a norm, many will fall outside of it. So while we're at it, I'd like to add one more occasional observation, which other chameleon keepers may experience, but should not be cause for alarm. I have seen it mostly with pardalis. While most females will not dig below six inches, and end up with a clean hole with an obvious point of entry, those who want to be "deep diggers" will essentially backfill behind themselves as they tunnel, obscuring the original entry point of their excavation. This is inevitable with a deeper nest. Not to worry, as she always manages to dig herself out, sometimes exiting the ground 4-8 inches from where she entered. In such instances, the nest is backfilled as she tunnels out, and this is often one of those "after dusk" egg layings, as the amount of time involved in a deep nest is considerable. In many cases, she does not refill her exit point, although the eggs are safely buried. It is important to keep the nesting medium firmly packed, as the female may reject soil that is too loosely packed, or a rare, but possible, cave-in can occur with serious consequences. With a cave-in, there will be some sort of a depression, whereas with a successful deep dig, there will be some mounding. And this is only the tip of the iceberg. Thanks again....... Jim at The Chameleon Company

if I were a keeper and watched mine disappear under the soil I would probably and dig her out! One more reason for us to "trust" our chams that they know what they are doing...although, Luna showed some odd behavior today. See new thread above

lele
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)