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Question,questions,questions?

ROMEO11523 Dec 11, 2004 03:32 PM

I have been reading the forum a lot and learning a lot about yoshi and have waited till I had a couple questions before posting. Yoshi is doing really good and is now more responsive, happier, growing like a weed, and definitely heathier. I will explain the diet and the cage then ask the questions. The cage I built is 48" wide,24" deep, and 24" high. I used three 50 lb. bags of playsand and made a hideout slash basking spot out of flat stone (natural like in the wild) and just recently got a nice piece of driftwood. The feeding I use a flatstone (again natural). Lighting I use a 150 watt reptisun bulb above the rocks which keeps one end and the basking spot 100 and the other end 80 and today I am finally installing a 36" reptisun 5.0 lamp and at night I use a 75 watt red bulb to be safe. The diet is dandelion greens everyday and bok choy every other week mixed in. I feed crickets every wednesday at 7pm. The veggies I feed him and the crickets I sprinkle a good amount of uro dust on every day.

My questions are. Am I using the uro dust right or too much? Yoshis whole snout is covered in that white junk and the poor thing crags his snout over the rocks to get it off, whats causeing the excess? Is the diet right or should he be getting more or less of something? Is the lighting good? I know the 36" 5.0 will help. Should I have anything else in the cage? How do I know if he's getting enough water? Why does he run from superworms? Any help would be appreciated. BTW haven't heard from you vonnie in a long time.

thanks,
Romeo

Replies (7)

jeune18 Dec 11, 2004 11:18 PM

i would say cut the uro dust to once a week. it is a lot like a multivitamin so he may be getting too much supplement.
variety is the spice of life so you could mix up the greens more maybe once he is a little more acclimated
he does have the ability to get within in 12 inches of the uvb light, right?
helga hates superworms too. and not every uro will eat bugs but they don't have to have them.

sorry, i have not been on IMs much this week and i always see your IMS when i get home from class. it is the last week of school so i have three 12-15 page papers due, one of them in spanish (not on spanish, actually en la lengua espanola) and i am tutoring at the high school and helping out at my friends tree lot and i have to clean my apartment and ship the lizards home before i fly back to south carolina for a month. papers are due monday. i leave wednesday so after that i will hopefully have more time
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

debb_luvs_uros Dec 12, 2004 10:07 AM

Romeo,

A few comments/suggestions-

With 150 lbs of play sand as substrate, I would be careful with the stones in your enclosure as uromastyx are terrific burrowers. Deaths have resulted from uromastyx being kept on granular substrate and tunneling under heavy stones and being crushed.

Temperature. I would suggest elevating your basking spot to 120-130F (guideline not a magical number). The cool zone of your enclosure is fine at 80 but it might be more beneficial for your uromastyx if you could keep a fairly decent portion of the enclosure at a slightly higher temperature range of lets say 90-100F. These guys have a preferred optimal body temperature well above most other animals so attempting to provide them a comfortable roaming area within lets say 10 or so degrees of this estimated potz (under-not over) will allow your uromastyx to be more active and utilize a better portion of its enclosure without the need to constantly sit under a basking light. A good predictor of whether you are doing this right (in addition to a digital thermometer) is the animals behavior. You want Yoshi fairly active during the day. If he basks a lot, you may want to try upping the gradient temperature while paying close attention to keeping a large enough cool zone for him to effectively thermoregulate.

UVB. You mention that your enclosure is 24 inches tall and that you have installed a Reptisun 5.0 lamp. Unless you have manipulated this much, much closer to Yoshi, I have my doubts about how beneficial this bulb will be. I have been testing uvb lamps for some time now and have not found a standard tube uvb bulb that puts out adequate amounts of uvb at 24 inches. Most of these bulbs have considerable decay within a month of use so if you can mount this to within 10-12 inches, I think that the bulb will be much more effective.

Diet. My recommendation would be to use 2-3 staples and supplement with a variety of greens. This will allow you to introduce a diet that varies a little in nutritional composition. As we do not know the exact dietary needs of a uromastyx, this will reduce the possibility of us focusing heavily on one or two items and possibly missing out on an important vitamin or mineral necessary for optimal health.
My personal preference would be to limit the animal protein but I doubt if anything harmful will result from feeding a cricket once per week. If you are feeding heavily once a week, you might want to do a little research on how animal protein has an impact on the health of herbivores and how quite a few in the field/hobby are under the belief that many uromastyx are true herbivores.
The reason you might be seeing an excess of white stuff around Yoshi’s nose is that dandelions are rather high in sodium compared to other greens. Adding a few other greens to your mix rather than focusing heavily on just dandelion should help with this.

Uro dust. If you are using T-Rex Uromastyx Dust then I personally do not see a problem with using the dust every other day or even sparingly daily. This product contains a much smaller percentage of fat soluble vitamins than most vitamin supplements on the market. One really needs to look at the diet being fed and the analysis of the product when determining how to correctly supplement as they are not created equal. Just compare several of the primary potential problem (say that 3x fast) vitamins between T-Rex Uro Dust and Zoo Med’s Reptivite. Uro dust contains roughly 20,000 IU of vitamin A per kilo wheras Reptivite contains roughly 220,000 IU per kilo. Uro dust provides vitamin A in smaller portions due to the possibility of toxicity but then adds in a source of beta carotene for those animals that can convert vitamin A from this resource. (Some manufacturers have introduced products that ‘only’ provide beta carotene rather than vitamin A but I am not so certain how effective ‘all’ reptiles are at converting beta carotene to vitamin A so I personally like T-Rex’s route of providing a small amount of A and the beta carotene) Also compare the d3 levels of the two products. T-Rex Uro Dust contains roughly 4000 IU of d3 per kilo while Reptivite contains roughly 22,880 IU per Kilo. (These are estimates as I had to convert from pounds to kilo and the analysis therefore will not be as accurate) I am not pointing out the difference in these products to promote one over the other- just to show that each product needs to be looked at individually when determining how much to use. I certainly would not use these two products equally.

jeune18 Dec 12, 2004 11:40 AM

wow, you know alot about that dust and i am not trying to counteract what you are saying but just trying to understand the product better.
when i tried to look it up on the internet, sadly the word dust returned alot of hits for maid services and all i ever found was the makers website which said something about even making iceburg healthy so i did not really know what to take seriously and what with a grain of salt.
anyway from my understanding, i thought it was a specially designed vitamin supplement that was supposed to take the place of your normal vitamin supplement and it just had safer levels of things for uros. i know the back of it says something about daily consumption and i just thought it was a way to make you use more of their product.
did you do your own analysis? or do you know of a better website or book that i could read about this dust and/or vitamins and nutrients in general? i have tried to read but i usually just encounter the same superficial discussions.
thanks!
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

debb_luvs_uros Dec 12, 2004 11:48 AM

Vonnie

I use T-Rex Uromastyx Dust so I have the label which gives me the analysis.

mwilso1 Dec 14, 2004 12:32 PM

>Romeo,
>
>A few comments/suggestions-
>. Uro dust contains roughly 20,000 IU of vitamin A per kilo >wheras Reptivite contains roughly 220,000 IU per kilo. Uro dust >provides vitamin A in smaller portions due to the possibility >of toxicity but then adds in a source of beta carotene for those >animals that can convert vitamin A from this resource. (Some >manufacturers have introduced products that ‘only’ provide beta >carotene rather than vitamin A but I am not so certain how >effective ‘all’ reptiles are at converting beta carotene to >vitamin A

Debb,

This is why I love your posts, lots of good tidbits of info. I have been thinking about vitamin A toxicity and whether beta carotene was useful to uros.

I also use Uro Dust and in addition supplement with Zupreem peletized finch food (which I believe you also use) which also contains vitamin A and I think no beta carotene.

I use the Zupreem pellets as more of a vitamin supplement rather than as a main food source so I only feed very limited quantities occasionaly.

Have you seen anything on other herbivorous lizard (iguanas etc..)being able to convert beta carotene to A?

I know A and d3 are biggies for toxicity, any others we should be keeping our eyes on?

Thanks
-----
Mike Wilson
mwilson@fuu.net

debb_luvs_uros Dec 14, 2004 02:17 PM

Hi Mike

As plants contain higher levels of beta carotene rather than Vitamin A, one could assume that herbivores have the ability to effectively convert beta carotene into A. My guess is that most animals can do this but I cannot say this with absolute certainty. I am also not certain which reptiles may be more efficient at doing so.

One should use caution with any of the fat soluble vitamins including E and K as well as your metals and even minerals such as selenium.

romeo11523 Dec 13, 2004 08:00 AM

I installed the bulb last night and it iss 12" from the top of the sand so it's even closer when he is in his basking spot. After installing the bulb he perked right up and started moving around his cage more. I do have a lot of sand and the cage could use more in my opinion but the question about the rocks falling on yoshi, I had cleared the whole bottom clear of sand before building the rock basking/hideout spot so it's solid on the floor of the cage. An update on eating and waste he pooped last night before I put the bulb in and it stunk to high heaven and it was big but compact not runny. After that he proceeded to eat the two live superworms I had for him as he had no insects wednesday cause of no pooping so no appetite I guess. Hopefully he is a happy camper now and I want to continue to improve his cage to natural habitat. As for heat I don't know how to make the basking spot hotter cause the rocks are high as they will go now and I already have 150 watt basking bulb. I would appreciate some ideas here. Thanks for all the help.

Thanks,
Roemo

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