Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anybody heard of these? I found a few young adults for sale but Ive never heard of them. Im wondering if I should get them and breed them. Is there a market for them? Same care as other rat snakes? Im wondering if they are selling them because they havent been able to breed them or because there isnt a market for this species. If anyone else has any photos or experience with these, Id like to know.

>>Anybody heard of these?

They are also known as Gonyosoma janseni. I just bought six of them, should have them this week. They are the only Gonyosoma form I have not worked with. I have the all black form of Janseni but have never seen a regular Janseni much less kept one.

>>Im wondering if I should get them and breed them.

Well I'd be thrilled if you did. Understand, though, that they are considered to be the most difficult of the Gonyosoma to breed. I've discussed this with breeders from all over the world.

Keep in mind that Gonyosoma in general are considered difficult to breed. The fact that regular Janseni are thought to be noticably more difficult than the rest of the Gonyosoma says a lot, IMO.

>>Is there a market for them?

Absolutely, just like any of the Gonyosoma.

>>Same care as other rat snakes?

Same care as other Gonyosoma.

>>Im wondering if they are selling them because they havent been able to breed them or because there isnt a market for this species.

These have been unavailable for years now and have just recently been imported again. I get dozens of e-mails from people looking for them.

But they are also difficult to breed.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Ive never heard of the Gonyosomas. I may know them by common name, but not by latin. I am not greatly experinced in breeding, so I dont think I will get them. I really want to get something that no one else has so that I have a better chance of moving them off my table at a show, and Ive never seen these before, and I thought they were incredibly gorgeous. Do you breed the Gonyosomas? If so, I may want to pick some up in a few years when I am more prepared to keep them. Do you have pics of your animals?

>>Ive never heard of the Gonyosomas. I may know them by common name, but not by latin.

Sorry, this is one group where the scientific names are easier than latin.

Gonyosoma oxycephala are known as:

Red-Tailed Green Ratsnake (or Racer)

But many are a silver/yellow combination and not green.

The Black Janseni are the same species as the Sulawesi black-tailed ratsnake but come from the small island of Seleyar.

>>I am not greatly experinced in breeding, so I dont think I will get them.

That's probably a good idea.

>>Do you breed the Gonyosomas?

I have produced fertile eggs but have lost them due to moving, a flood, and shortly after two females died from ovoposition difficulties.

>>Do you have pics of your animals?

Green G. oxycephala:

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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

This is a head shot of my silver/yellow male. Unfortunately I lost this male a month ago after him doing well for over a year.

I had my place wiped out by a flood over a year ago and this specimen escaped and actually spent several hours outdoors. He was recaptured, got sick, recovered, but then went downhill last month and died.

I don't like the silver specimens as much as the greens but I was quite fond of this specimen.

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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

This is a bizzare specimen. When I got this snake she was in shed. This is what I found the morning after she shed out completely. She really did look this color. In fact the picture was so orange to had to tone it down in photoshop to better display what she really looks like. This is the photoshopped version.

This female now looks nothing like this picture. I'll try to get an updated picture. She has a grey background with hints of yellow, orange, and green.

BTW, all of the three pictures I've posted are WC specimens from Java, Indonesia. All three general types are found on the Island and appear to interbreed.

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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

This is not my specimen. It belongs to someone from England I correspond with.

If you take these out in the sun they are actually more of a deep chocolate color. Similar to Black Pinesnakes.

But under artificial light this is what they look like.

Ironically, these are born green with red tails, just like green G. oxycephala. The black & tan Janseni are born with colors similar to their parents. Or at least I've been told.

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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Nice specimens. I really like the green and the black ones. I think those black tails were the most interesting though, I dont know why. Thanks for the pics!

>>Nice specimens. I really like the green and the black ones. I think those black tails were the most interesting though, I dont know why. Thanks for the pics!

I'm looking forward to seeing my first Black & Tan G. janseni in person. Hopefully I won't fall in love with them as much as the others - they're hard to get and I'm running out of space!
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

That you are running out of space and can get ahold of them, then I've been looking for a female for three years, have plenty of space, but just can't get them anywhere! I'm going to loose my mind. I'm even prepared to trade off my remaining male FWC to free my large cage for the project! Guess I'm SOL untill the cards fall my way though...The black tails are great though, in my experience have been easier to work with then G. oxcephala, and I know with my cycling techniques I could breed them.

I know I've heard it thrown around before, but what's the chance that the black G.janseni is actually a melanistic phase of G. oxcephala? If it were G. janseni, is should start off like a normal G.janseni and then mature to a black adult, much like the melanistic east hognoses that we have around here.

Just my thoughts though...
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

>>That you are running out of space and can get ahold of them, then I've been looking for a female for three years, have plenty of space, but just can't get them anywhere! I'm going to loose my mind. I'm even prepared to trade off my remaining male FWC to free my large cage for the project! Guess I'm SOL untill the cards fall my way though...

Sorry nothing worked out with this shipment. Hopefully we'll get you set up.

>>The black tails are great though, in my experience have been easier to work with then G. oxcephala, and I know with my cycling techniques I could breed them.

I hope you're right. It's amazing how much trouble many of the Europeans have with these. There have been remarkably few CB specimens over there, even from experienced breeders of G. oxycephala.

>>I know I've heard it thrown around before, but what's the chance that the black G.janseni is actually a melanistic phase of G. oxcephala?

I suppose pretty good. I also suppose that it's possible the regular G. janseni are G. oxycephala.

I guess what you're really asking is if black G. janseni are more closely related to G. oxycephala than they are to the black & tan G. janseni.

The biggest problem with that hypothesis is geographic since Celebes and Seleyar are so close to each other. But perhaps G. oxcyephala or a shared ancestor made their way to Seleyar first and then to Celebes.

In that case your phylogentic hypothesis would fit better with the geography.

>>If it were G. janseni, is should start off like a normal G.janseni and then mature to a black adult, much like the melanistic east hognoses that we have around here.

"Should" is probably the right way to put it. But we all know that "should" does not always apply to biology. Also remember that Gonyosoma is known for intra-clutch polymorphism on Java, so who knows what happened when Gonyosoma spp. ended up on Seleyar.

Interesting stuff. I'll see what I can do to get a female to you.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Chris, I'll be interested to see what you think about the Oxy/Jansen relationship when you get yours, as I told you before I personally think the black/tan Janseni are quite different than the other 2, particularly in their head structure.

Freight

If you get sick of being attacked by your Janseni they will always be welcome here!!! LOL

I can always send you a pair of gloves and a suit of armor if you like? Its going to probably be one of those love/hate relationship kind of things.

Just an FYI about these black/tan Janseni: I have adopted the practice of removing the snake from her enclosure (carefully, for my sake) and having my wife clean the cage. She seems to have less of a tendancy to bite (the snake that is)when she's out, but she's always on the lookout for a target, and she's great at the vertical press! I'll try to get a pic next time I, oops make that we, clean her!

Chris, do you find the black Janseni to be placeid and layed back? I know my cb male is, but i'm wondering about wc's.

We can compare bite marks at the end of the week!

Freight

>>Chris, do you find the black Janseni to be placeid and layed back? I know my cb male is, but i'm wondering about wc's.

All of mine are CB and were relatively calm when I got them this past summer. Within a few months of my leaving them alone they had become evil demons again. In other words, perfect.

My CB adult male is no longer handleable but I can work around him comfortably. Put my hands on this and he starts striking.

My 1.1 juveniles, however, either need to be in their hide boxes or removed from their cages to get them clean. Just removing water bowls is an experience.

And I could handle them back in July!

I'm really looking forward to seeing these snakes in person and comparing them myself.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

That is a great pic, thanks for posting. Someday I will try my luck with these guys. Tom Stevens

I am working with these snakes, and was able to hatch two eggs out of a three egg clutch last September.

I am finding them extremely easy to keep. However, getting them acclimated was a nightmare!

I lost 6 out of 10 animals I purchased last year. Working with a reptile vet I treated them all for parasites and gave them a prophalactic antibiotic regimen. Most ate. Then they died!

The four healthy adults I have came in last year. They were out of a small shipment of particularly healthy animals.

It breaks my heart to talk to importers that tell me they use WC Gonys for cobra food! But, the mortality rate is horrendous!

I am looking to acquire more specimens. Please let me know if you know of any!!

Can you tell us a bit about how you ended up having a successful hatching: temps, substrate, type of incubator, moisture level, etc.

Also, which sub species did you hatch??? Eating problems?

Thanx

Freight

Well, I did everything wrong.

I put each of the three eggs in a one-pound size deli food container with moist vermiculite and put them in a cupboard in a heated lab. This room was in the mid to upper 70's. Then, I had to move them to a workshop in my garage. The temps were again ranging around the mid to upper 70's. After three months, all three pipped, two hatched.

The two young were set up in plastic shoeboxes and I began to offer them live pinks. They refused to eat for two months. Then, they both shed and began to eat FT pinks just like any good hatchling ratsnakes. I didn't change the housing or anything.

The parents eat FT mice. They are housed singly in large plastic tubs with a hole cut in the top to accomodate a light. They have branches and bark to climb on and hide under. I will be placing the two pair pair-wise in two Vision 322 cages. In the next week.

I don't know the subspecies. They are the typical green morph.

I was particularly wondering about the incubation temps, as there are so many problems seen with hatching these eggs! With your success I think it re-confirms some of our thoughts that more success comes with lower temps, even lower than i expected! From what i am told getting the babies to pip has been an ongoing problem due to the egg staying too hard for them to dig through, so i'll be lowering my temps on my next clutch to see how it goes.

Thanx agin!

freight