Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i know alot of you are against loose substrait. and heres another argument in your favor. ive been using it, and thought it would be safe. i just got home from work, and im changing it tomarrow (monday 12/13). but any way, i dont know how meny of you use this substrait, or have thought about it. but i work at a major petstore chain, and we got an email today. it sais that ESU crushed walnut shell lizard litter bedding should absolutly under no surcomstance be used unless there is a screen ontop of it. its almost 100% a death wish for any reptile that eats it because is not digestable at all. so i thought id let you all know just incase your using it.
thanx for reading.
nevin
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.1. green tree python-bates
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos (rip sunshine)
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, narvana, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leopard gecko-ecstacy
.1 tremper leopard gecko-euphoria
.2. amazon tree boas-sweetness&carnage
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa-stimpy R.I.P.
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. uromastyx-chubby
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.1. pacman frog- MR belly
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

So are we telling out guests that purchase this? I think a reputable chain would recall an item that is potentially hazardous. We do in the food business!
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Jeff
A Dozen Bearded Dragons
A Dozen Frogs and Toads
0.1 Wife Unnamed....J/K Jenifer
1.1 Northern Pastel Skinks
1.1 Cats (Siamese and Tabby) Hulk and Mighty Mouse
1.1 Chihuahuas Arnold The Governator and Lucy
2.4 Leopard Geckos
0.1 Cali. Kingsnake
Arnold8169@charter.net

Many online care sheets for bearded dragons and other reptiles inform readers not to purchase the crushed walnut because it cuts the inside of their intestines and also causes impaction when ingested.

I also agree that companies should just stop making it OR if pet stores, including major pet store chains stop ordering them to be sold, then the companies making these things will get the hint.
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Cookie Monster)
1.0.0 Crested Gecko (Vas-D)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.0.2 Goldfish (Lenny & Carl)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)

i dont run the chain, im only incharge of the herps there. and we were informed by ESU them selfs. so now all we can do is advise against it(which i will be doing) and tell customers that buy it that they need to put a fine screen over top of it. and yeah i agree with you, but its still safe to use for things such as snakes, native to areas such as mine(pennsylvania). my best friend keeps his cornsnakes on it. he takes the snakes out and feeds them in boxes, so they cant eat it. so since its safe to use for other herps, they wont recall it.
nevin
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.1. green tree python-bates
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos (rip sunshine)
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, narvana, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leopard gecko-ecstacy
.1 tremper leopard gecko-euphoria
.2. amazon tree boas-sweetness&carnage
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa-stimpy R.I.P.
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. uromastyx-chubby
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.1. pacman frog- MR belly
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

oh ok, i never really got into snakes (i'm scared! LOL ) so i wasn't aware of that being safe for them. i just understood that they were very dangerous for lizards, so i assumed it was all reptiles. i read that info back when i had my leo last year.

it's good that you'll be advising lizard customers about the correct substrates to use. AND you can still advertise the walnut substrate for the snake customers. and don't worry, i wasn't pinning you for stopping the sales of this substrate and i knew you didn't run the chain (that would be cool though huh! )
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Cookie Monster)
1.0.0 Crested Gecko (Vas-D)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.0.2 Goldfish (Lenny & Carl)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)

ok, thanx. and hopefully soon enough, ill be running a chain. i plan on opening my own petstore. one based on good breeding techneaques(oh crap i cant spell). one that listains to a person that may know more about a perticular herp, then me. wish me luck. lol. and i only wished to warn ppl about the bedding. i posted almost the same message in every forum that i thought there might be people using it.
nevin
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.1. green tree python-bates
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos (rip sunshine)
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, narvana, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leopard gecko-ecstacy
.1 tremper leopard gecko-euphoria
.2. amazon tree boas-sweetness&carnage
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa-stimpy R.I.P.
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. uromastyx-chubby
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.1. pacman frog- MR belly
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

haha yeah i saw it on the leo forum too when i dropped by. it's cool though because there could be potential new buyers out there that don't know what substrate to use. i know when i first started out, paper towels were the last thing on my mind til i saw the brown ones in public restrooms! HAH looks like dirt AND sand! so i use those

and good luck in opening your own pet store in the future. if you start one out in the bay area in CA, i'll be more than happy to work as a part time employee when i'm not working in the hospital of course, i'll be the one making YOU the money LoL

which reminds me, i have deals to make with someone, but i'm low on the cash. i was thinking of starting breeding projects with leos & aft's next year. butttt, i don't get how all that works and someone said they'd incubate and sell for me and give me the money....and doesn't want anything for it. i can't help but think there's some sort of catch even when i was assured there is none. i don't know.... i'll have to think about it it's making me want to start my own pet store too - lol - and you have quite a collection going down your SIG!
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Cookie Monster)
1.0.0 Crested Gecko (Vas-D)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.0.2 Goldfish (Lenny & Carl)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)

yeah, that dont sound right at all. hes probably ganna keep quite a few for him self and just tell you the eggs werent fertile or sumthing.
-----
.1. green tree python-bates
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos (rip sunshine)
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, narvana, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leopard gecko-ecstacy
.1 tremper leopard gecko-euphoria
.2. amazon tree boas-sweetness&carnage
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa-stimpy R.I.P.
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. uromastyx-chubby
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.1. pacman frog- MR belly
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

i actually wouldn't mind if he did coz i seriously don't get the whole thing on making the breed, cooling them off while they're in the same cage, incubating properly, and baby care. he's just giving me a really good deal on his lizards, so i told him he could keep all the eggs! but he said no and that he wants me to.

i'll post about the deal on the leo forum later
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Cookie Monster)
1.0.0 Crested Gecko (Vas-D)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.0.2 Goldfish (Lenny & Carl)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)

don worry bout cooling with leos. there the most easyest to breed. when they wanna breed, there ganna do it, weather there cooled, or not.
nevin
-----
.1. green tree python-bates
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos (rip sunshine)
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, narvana, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leopard gecko-ecstacy
.1 tremper leopard gecko-euphoria
.2. amazon tree boas-sweetness&carnage
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa-stimpy R.I.P.
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. uromastyx-chubby
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.1. pacman frog- MR belly
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

It's about time they admit this stuff causes problems. I wonder how many lizards had to die before they sent out this memo. It sounds like they are still trying to sell it to lizard keepers by telling them to put a screen over it. Who keeps their dragons on a screen? It'll still be bought by people that pick it up themselves without talking to a sales person. Maybe a name change other then "lizard litter" would help.
ESU also has Lizard Litter Plus, that I don't think is any better, made with barks.

Here's the sales pitch:
Lizard Litter Plus is a premium bedding that contains White Fir and Eucalyptus chips. These ingredients are ultra-absorbent and have been specially sized for your animal's safety and comfort. Lizard Litter Plus is environmentally friendly, contains 100% natural products, and is suitable for composting. It contains no pine or cedar.

Lizard Litter Plus is ideal for all types of lizards, snakes, turtles, tortoises and arachnids. Some of the individual species that thrive on Lizard Litter Plus are Iguanas, Anoles, Geckos, Skinks, Bearded Dragons, Water Dragons, Tegus, Monitors, Boas, Pythons, Corn Snakes, Garter Snakes, Box Turtles, Tortoises and Tarantulas.

NOT!!!!!
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www.classylizard.com
Home of the Classy Lizard Hammock

____

Thanks for the warning

Newspaper is 100% safe-and easiest to clean. What you see is what you get-no hidden dirt, poo, or anything else.
No chance of impaction. You can use layers of newspaper if you use an UTH. As thick as you like. I use either black-and-white ink side, or even inkless paper (can be obtained at any newspaper businesss.)

For her nails, I use an emory board once or twice a week. Only takes a few seconds-kept beautifully trimmed that way and no danger of clipping a vien. She's so used to it sometimes she even holds out her paw while I file her nails.

Jade Fox