Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Who here among us believe buying a Wild Caught Female for breeding this season is a wise investment? If you think spending $100 or more for a female that is over 1000g would eat, breed and produce a clutch of eggs I would like to hear your reason behind that purchase.
I am doing on going research on WC females and their place in using them in breeding programs.
There has been an influx of ads currently selling WC females, with headers like: "READY FOR BREEDING" "BUY NOW, OR PAY LATER" "BIG FEMALES FOR YOUR BREEDING COLONY" and so on.
Is there actual documented informaiton that these WC animals actually breed in captivity and lay good eggs?
Not withstanding the WC gravid ones that come in the country in March and April every spring.
Any feedback would be appreicated.

I believe it would be far better to buy hatchlings. Buying WC adult snakes of any species is no way to make quick money, and most times it will take longer to get eggs/babies from the WC adults than it will to raise up a hatchling & get it to reproduce. You may get eggs from a large WC female the first season you buy her, but in the long-run I think she will be much less productive than a captive raise female.

I have no experience with this in Ball pythons, but have seen it in other WC adult female snakes (it usually takes 2-5 years to get viable eggs).

JMO
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Chad Bachman

I purchased 11 sub adult/adult females earlier in the year with the understanding they were all feeding on small rats and had all been treated inside and out for parasites. Well got them in and only three of them would eat and that was one mouse every week or two. Not much of a meal for a 1000 gram snake. I was also going through and picking ticks off all of them... Not much fun...

After about three months all but a few were eating live mice and a couple were eating small rats. After about 6 months I finally got all of them to take a meal. Now after 8 months a couple will still only take one mouse every week or two but the others will at least take 3 in one day, some can be tricked into a rat if I put both rat and mouse in the cage at the same time. 2 of them will eat rats regularly, these two are the only ones I'm attempting to breed this year. They have copulated multiple times but don't know if they will produce yet. Another thing is even though they are eating rats and have put on weight they don't seem to have the muscle mass as my other adult females, I'm guessing this will probably change after a couple years of solid eating but who knows. Most of the others are finally putting on a little weight but after 8 months of messing with them it was not worth all the trouble.

Just my experience.

George Knaack
GLK HERP

Just wondering, where the ones that are breeding now the ones that where a little small when you got them? I'm wondering if you have better luck with the 1000 gram girls than with the really big ones that probably produced eggs in the wild before and are mature before capture.

Also, did you go ahead and treat for internal parasites including tapeworms? If the seller wasn't shooting straight on feeding or the external parasites they probably weren’t treated for internal parasites either. Especially not tape worms since Droncit is pretty expensive. Might explain the lack of weight gain in the ones that seem to be eating pretty decent.

None of them were real big when I got them in, if I remember right they were all between 900 and 1100 grams. One of the two that I'm breeding now was on the 900 gram side and the other on the 1100 gram side. Both are around 1600 grams now.

I did treat with both Panacur and Flagyl but was unaware anything else was necessary, I thought Panacur rid any intestinal worms. I will check into the Droncit, what is the proper dosage for snakes.

As for the weight gain, I should have been more clear though. The two that started with rats are doing good and are the two breeding. All the others that are taking multiple mice at a time seem to be putting weight back on at a normal pace. When I said "most of the others are finally putting on a little weight", I was meaning from the weight I got them in at. Most had dropped between two and three hundred grams. I will still check on the Droncit though, my vet is pretty cool I can usually just call in and they will have the med waiting for me to pick up.

Thanks for the advice,
George

My vet gave me the Droncit dosage. I might have it in my records somewhere but sounds like you will talk to your vet anyway so I'm sure he/she can give you better info that me.

Maybe there is an interesting niche for those subadult girls like you got but I suspect the true adult (1,500 gram ) imported girls might be a little tougher. It would be nice to hear from someone who has tried with lots of them.

Of course if you are talking about 1000 gram or less girls you could theoretically get cb up to that size in a year so the wild caught is at most only saving you a year and maybe still not worth the trouble and perhaps not any quicker.

You are probably right with the larger females. I have talked to a couple people that have purchased gravid ball pythons over the years and after they lay they don't seem to do well at all. Sounded like many would never start eating again.

I don't think either is worth the risk and effort involved.

George

I haven't done it on as large of scale as many of you, but I did get 6 wc females in a deal...2 still won't eat on their own (I will not feed gerbils!) and the only meal they've prolly had in the last 4-6 months is a mouse i shoved down their throat until their feeding response kicked in. They were all in the 600-1000g range when I got them, the biggest one is one of two that still won't eat. It's quite frustrating...she just hisses at it.

Matt

If you buy them to breed within 6 to 8 months you are way ahead of your self. If you buy them like i did with intentions for next year then they are better then CB. I have about 15 04' import babies that are doing strong and about 15 04' import adults...most of the adults are doing strong on rats not mice...I expect them to go next year where as the babies will probably take anothe year...I will let you know the results next year.

Simply put...the adults will eat rats if given nothing else over time...used gerbils on a few to get them going and the switch to rats was easy. I had one drop to 350 grams and she began to eat rats and is now pushing 900 grams and is a voracious eater on large rats
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Michael Enriquez

I got them in under the impression they were all eating well on live small rats. If this was the case it would have been probable most would be breeding size by now. At the same time I had 10 captive females in the same weight range and all of them except two are up to weight and breeding now. The two that aren't went off feed very early and never made it up to size. I know most wild caught will eventually eat but that was not the impression I was under when these were purchased. I know it is always a big risk buying wild caught but I figured if they were all treated and eating rats that would have minimized the risk and the extra work associated with getting them acclimated... If I knew they weren't eating and still had ticks I wouldn't have even messed with it. Done it in the past don't like it. If you have the time to play with them and do all the tricks you might be able to get them breeding a year earlier than babies but I still don't think with the extra time and risk it is worth it. Just my opinion.

I would be interested in knowing how yours do next year though. Also how big were they when you got them in?

Thanks,
George

Alot of WC adult snakes will breed but not produce the first couple-?? years, but some will. I still think you would have better/quicker luck most times with CH or CB animals. Let us know how it works out for you, and good luck!

Also, were your females large mature adults when imported, or young immature adults (that will probably have alot to do with your success rate)? If you were already asked this, ignore my post (I didn't read all the replies).
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Chad Bachman